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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4970366" data-attributes="member: 22779">Celebrim, you cannot roll for initiative with only one side.&nbsp; The orcs on the other side of the door have not made any sound, thus the party cannot take any hostile actions against them (presuming they don't know the orcs are there).&nbsp; Calling for initiative is just announcing to the players, &quot;Hey, there's badguys on the other side of this door!&quot;&nbsp; That's giving them information that their character's shouldn't have.How can I lose the chance for surprising an opponent because I heard him coming and he has no idea that I'm there?The scenario with the orcs works like this:1.&nbsp; PC's make a noise, the orcs make a listen check and succeed.2.&nbsp; The orcs get ready for someone to come in, but no initiative is rolled.3.&nbsp; The PC's open the door, the orcs gain a surprise round.4.&nbsp; Initiative is rolled, with the chance that the PC's may still be flat footed.You cannot initiate combat when neither side is actually threatening the other.&nbsp; I don't think this is specifically called out, but, it makes sense to me.&nbsp; The orcs cannot hurt someone on the other side of the door and the PC's aren't aware of the orcs.&nbsp; No threats, no combat possible.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4970366, member: 22779"] Celebrim, you cannot roll for initiative with only one side. The orcs on the other side of the door have not made any sound, thus the party cannot take any hostile actions against them (presuming they don't know the orcs are there). Calling for initiative is just announcing to the players, "Hey, there's badguys on the other side of this door!" That's giving them information that their character's shouldn't have. How can I lose the chance for surprising an opponent because I heard him coming and he has no idea that I'm there? The scenario with the orcs works like this: 1. PC's make a noise, the orcs make a listen check and succeed. 2. The orcs get ready for someone to come in, but no initiative is rolled. 3. The PC's open the door, the orcs gain a surprise round. 4. Initiative is rolled, with the chance that the PC's may still be flat footed. You cannot initiate combat when neither side is actually threatening the other. I don't think this is specifically called out, but, it makes sense to me. The orcs cannot hurt someone on the other side of the door and the PC's aren't aware of the orcs. No threats, no combat possible. [/QUOTE]

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