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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4970896" data-attributes="member: 5143">I thought of another example where allowing this sort of thing becomes a problem.You have a party who makes listen checks but fails to hear enemies behind the door.&nbsp; The enemies don't hear the PCs.&nbsp; They all ready actions to attack the next enemy they see as soon as the door is opened.&nbsp; Someone opens the door, they all get a free attack, then initiative is rolled.&nbsp; They win and get to hit the monsters again.This is the way the game normally DOES work if the PCs are aware and the enemies are not.&nbsp; The PCs get a surprise round.&nbsp; However, if you allow readying out of combat, it allows the PCs to essentially get a surprise round against every encounter even if they fail to perceive them.Especially cunning parties say &quot;As I'm walking down the hallway, I roll for initiative assuming there might be enemies somewhere in this dungeon.&nbsp; I'm readying an action every round to attack the first enemy I see while using a move action to keep moving.&quot; in order to get surprise rounds against every encounter, even against monsters that surprise THEM.I certainly don't think it makes much sense for the following to happen: DM: &quot;You are walking down the hallway, when out of a side passage comes an Orc taking your completely by surprise.&nbsp; He 5 ft steps from around a corner and then shoots a crossbow bolt...&quot;Player: &quot;Umm, I readied my action to attack anything I could see.&nbsp; I think the 5-ft step around the corner puts him into sight.&nbsp; I shoot an arrow at him and kill him before he gets a chance to attack.&quot;DM: &quot;But he surprised you...you had no idea he was there.&nbsp; How do you react faster than he does?&quot;Player: &quot;I was ready for someone to attack me.&quot;DM: &quot;But so was he.&nbsp; He KNEW you were coming.&nbsp; He heard you.&nbsp; You only suspected there might be an enemy somewhere in this entire dungeon.&quot;Player: &quot;Yeah, but I said the words 'I ready my action'.&nbsp; It's an ancient mantra that makes you faster than everyone else.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 4970896, member: 5143"] I thought of another example where allowing this sort of thing becomes a problem. You have a party who makes listen checks but fails to hear enemies behind the door. The enemies don't hear the PCs. They all ready actions to attack the next enemy they see as soon as the door is opened. Someone opens the door, they all get a free attack, then initiative is rolled. They win and get to hit the monsters again. This is the way the game normally DOES work if the PCs are aware and the enemies are not. The PCs get a surprise round. However, if you allow readying out of combat, it allows the PCs to essentially get a surprise round against every encounter even if they fail to perceive them. Especially cunning parties say "As I'm walking down the hallway, I roll for initiative assuming there might be enemies somewhere in this dungeon. I'm readying an action every round to attack the first enemy I see while using a move action to keep moving." in order to get surprise rounds against every encounter, even against monsters that surprise THEM. I certainly don't think it makes much sense for the following to happen: DM: "You are walking down the hallway, when out of a side passage comes an Orc taking your completely by surprise. He 5 ft steps from around a corner and then shoots a crossbow bolt..." Player: "Umm, I readied my action to attack anything I could see. I think the 5-ft step around the corner puts him into sight. I shoot an arrow at him and kill him before he gets a chance to attack." DM: "But he surprised you...you had no idea he was there. How do you react faster than he does?" Player: "I was ready for someone to attack me." DM: "But so was he. He KNEW you were coming. He heard you. You only suspected there might be an enemy somewhere in this entire dungeon." Player: "Yeah, but I said the words 'I ready my action'. It's an ancient mantra that makes you faster than everyone else." [/QUOTE]

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