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<blockquote data-quote="catsclaw227" data-source="post: 4972418" data-attributes="member: 14197">Well, usually I am the DM, and your stereotype of me (or my players) is incorrect.&nbsp;&nbsp; We've had many battles over the years that started at a distance.&nbsp; In these cases, the enemy was clear and the PCs stated that they were attacking.&nbsp; So we rolled initiative. And players/NPCs acted in their turn.&nbsp; But combat had already started.&nbsp; And not all fights are battles to the death.&nbsp; Many of our fights end with intelligent NPCs either running away, giving up by either failing morale and dropping weapons or because they were smart enough to know that it was better to live another day.&nbsp; Same for PCs.&nbsp; There are also (more often than not) very blurry lines between whether a battle breaks out between NPCs and PCs.&nbsp; Unintelligent monsters?&nbsp; Yes, that is a clearer line.&nbsp; NPCs?&nbsp; Not so clear.Many of our encounters (in 1e, 2e, 3.x, and 4e) that are supposed to be &quot;combats&quot; don't start or even end that way.And yet we follow the rules regarding initiative and flatfootedness as I described upthread.BTW -- How does initiative and/or flatfootedness have to do with whether some encounters end where both sides still have people standing?I've been playing since 1978 and DMing since 1980.&nbsp; My experience with multiple editions have blessed me with an understanding of the subtleties surrounding how encounters are started and/or resolved.&nbsp; Your stereotype of me and my players is far off base.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="catsclaw227, post: 4972418, member: 14197"] Well, usually I am the DM, and your stereotype of me (or my players) is incorrect. We've had many battles over the years that started at a distance. In these cases, the enemy was clear and the PCs stated that they were attacking. So we rolled initiative. And players/NPCs acted in their turn. But [I]combat had already started[/I]. And not all fights are battles to the death. Many of our fights end with intelligent NPCs either running away, giving up by either failing morale and dropping weapons or because they were smart enough to know that it was better to live another day. Same for PCs. There are also (more often than not) very blurry lines between whether a battle breaks out between NPCs and PCs. Unintelligent monsters? Yes, that is a clearer line. NPCs? Not so clear. Many of our encounters (in 1e, 2e, 3.x, and 4e) that are supposed to be "combats" don't start or even end that way. And yet we follow the rules regarding initiative and flatfootedness as I described upthread. BTW -- How does initiative and/or flatfootedness have to do with whether some encounters end where both sides still have people standing? I've been playing since 1978 and DMing since 1980. My experience with multiple editions have blessed me with an understanding of the subtleties surrounding how encounters are started and/or resolved. Your stereotype of me and my players is far off base. [/QUOTE]

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