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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5123175" data-attributes="member: 35909">Haven't gotten to play PF yet, but I also worry the Rogue will be underpowered.&nbsp; Not for hitting things, though.&nbsp; Rogue remains with the worst base saves in the game, and the consitution and wisdom needed to improve the bad saves are at best secondary abilities for him, most likely tertiary.&nbsp; Aside from the vulnerabilities, I still don't like how much toe-stepping Bards now do on the Rogue's abilities as the &quot;skilled character.&quot;I've never really thought Rogues had problems doing damage with sneak attack.&nbsp; Hitting can be tough sometimes, especially since at least in 3E, &quot;flatfooted AC&quot; too often may as well have been &quot;full AC.&quot;&nbsp; Is this still the case with Pathfinder?&nbsp; And if JJ thinks partial concealment (20%-less than 50%) shouldn't stop a Rogue from sneak attacking...why weren't the rules finally changed?&nbsp; I saw in the thread this was forked from that a rogue can now &quot;sneak attack almost anything.&quot;&nbsp; Can someone give a breakdown of what in PF a Rogue can now sneak attack that he could not in 3E?Undead/Incorporeals?Constructs?Oozes?Plant Creatures?High level dudes in Fortification armor?Creatures that aren't the above but lack discernable anatomies?Which of those can now be sneak attacked?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5123175, member: 35909"] Haven't gotten to play PF yet, but I also worry the Rogue will be underpowered. Not for hitting things, though. Rogue remains with the worst base saves in the game, and the consitution and wisdom needed to improve the bad saves are at best secondary abilities for him, most likely tertiary. Aside from the vulnerabilities, I still don't like how much toe-stepping Bards now do on the Rogue's abilities as the "skilled character." I've never really thought Rogues had problems doing damage with sneak attack. Hitting can be tough sometimes, especially since at least in 3E, "flatfooted AC" too often may as well have been "full AC." Is this still the case with Pathfinder? And if JJ thinks partial concealment (20%-less than 50%) shouldn't stop a Rogue from sneak attacking...why weren't the rules finally changed? I saw in the thread this was forked from that a rogue can now "sneak attack almost anything." Can someone give a breakdown of what in PF a Rogue can now sneak attack that he could not in 3E? Undead/Incorporeals? Constructs? Oozes? Plant Creatures? High level dudes in Fortification armor? Creatures that aren't the above but lack discernable anatomies? Which of those can now be sneak attacked? [/QUOTE]

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