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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3699444" data-attributes="member: 22882">I take it you mean my statement of what I'm looking for?&nbsp; What makes it 'Internal?'&nbsp; Because it's focused on the rules being responsible for reinforcing genre?It's worth noting that, if so, the Internal/External axis is actually addressing an issue systems like the Threefold Model and GNS don't address at all.&nbsp; Both those systems, since they're designed to help design RPG rules, come from a basic 'system matters' standpoint.I understand (or think I understand) that you're stepping back from the default stance of system matters, and I think that's a worthwhile endeavor in its own right - but I'm not sure how or if it's useful to combine that with another metric that analyzes rules or players relative to something internal to the system.I would argue that there IS no continuum between Story, Challenge (more broadly applicable than 'Tactics') and Immersion - that they are entirely separate goals which are, especially at lower levels of interest, noninteractive unless the system is designed to make them so.Between System Matters (Internal) and System Doesn't Matter (External), however, there IS a clear continuum because those stances are directly opposed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 3699444, member: 22882"] I take it you mean my statement of what I'm looking for? What makes it 'Internal?' Because it's focused on the rules being responsible for reinforcing genre? It's worth noting that, if so, the Internal/External axis is actually addressing an issue systems like the Threefold Model and GNS don't address at all. Both those systems, since they're designed to help design RPG rules, come from a basic 'system matters' standpoint. I understand (or think I understand) that you're stepping back from the default stance of system matters, and I think that's a worthwhile endeavor in its own right - but I'm not sure how or if it's useful to combine that with another metric that analyzes rules or players relative to something internal to the system. I would argue that there IS no continuum between Story, Challenge (more broadly applicable than 'Tactics') and Immersion - that they are entirely separate goals which are, especially at lower levels of interest, noninteractive unless the system is designed to make them so. Between System Matters (Internal) and System Doesn't Matter (External), however, there IS a clear continuum because those stances are directly opposed. [/QUOTE]

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