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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3699486" data-attributes="member: 22882">To address your edited post (please don't edit during an ongoing discussion like this, BTW; it makes it almost impossible for ME to follow, much less anyone not participating):Plot v. Mechanics is not a &quot;v.&quot;If Mechanics and Plot butt heads, it's because of a conflict within the rules, and that conflict is not guaranteed to be there - Primetime Adventures, for example, makes the plot using the mechanics, and it is not alone in this respect.&nbsp; Many games other than D&amp;D have mechanics that either interact with or directly attempt to enhance the plot, going back at least as far as the RP/background Flaws in 1e Champions.&nbsp; Note also that Immersionists are almost always fervently opposed to plot, including most of the mechanics used to create it.&nbsp; Plot v. x is really an Immersionist v. Narrativist punch-up more than Immersionist v. Gamist.The name of the genre is disputed by Ryan Dancey with good reason: like the Blackadder definition of 'a,' it doesn't really mean anything - or at best has only a tenuous connection to the activity.&nbsp; (Note: I don't agree with Ryan's suggested replacement, but understand why he feels a replacement would be desirable.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 3699486, member: 22882"] To address your edited post (please don't edit during an ongoing discussion like this, BTW; it makes it almost impossible for ME to follow, much less anyone not participating): Plot v. Mechanics is not a "v." If Mechanics and Plot butt heads, it's because of a conflict within the rules, and that conflict is not guaranteed to be there - Primetime Adventures, for example, makes the plot using the mechanics, and it is not alone in this respect. Many games other than D&D have mechanics that either interact with or directly attempt to enhance the plot, going back at least as far as the RP/background Flaws in 1e Champions. Note also that Immersionists are almost always fervently opposed to plot, including most of the mechanics used to create it. Plot v. x is really an Immersionist v. Narrativist punch-up more than Immersionist v. Gamist. The name of the genre is disputed by Ryan Dancey with good reason: like the Blackadder definition of 'a,' it doesn't really mean anything - or at best has only a tenuous connection to the activity. (Note: I don't agree with Ryan's suggested replacement, but understand why he feels a replacement would be desirable.) [/QUOTE]

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