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<blockquote data-quote="Toben the Many" data-source="post: 4760543" data-attributes="member: 19273">It's not so much a need for a robust system outside of combat as it is having plenty of character abilities which affect things outside combat. World of Darkness, D&amp;D 3.5, and many other game systems have a slew of character abilities which affect outcomes outside of combat. In 4E, there's only skills. For example, there are plenty of D&amp;D abilities from previous editions which can influence character reactions, charm characters, create illusions, or help the party move in unconventional ways. What made things so fun, too, was the ability to combine these abilities to come up with organic and original solutions to problems. One of my favorite examples of this was when were playing 3.x, in the middle of a city that was about to explode. The Dwarf PC was wearing heavy armor and didn't have enough movement to get out in time. We were going to watch him die. Desperately looking through my Wizard's spells, I noted that I was carrying Monster Summoning. I summoned up a bison of all things and we got the dwarf on it and ran out of town just as it was about to explode. What I enjoyed about that scenario was that it wasn't just loosey-goosey roleplaying. It was taking a character ability and using it in a manner for which it was not intended at all. And using an ability primarily meant for combat outside of combat. Previous editions of D&amp;D were filled with that. 4E unfortunately lacks much of that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Toben the Many, post: 4760543, member: 19273"] It's not so much a need for a robust system outside of combat as it is having plenty of character [i]abilities[/i] which affect things outside combat. World of Darkness, D&D 3.5, and many other game systems have a slew of character abilities which affect outcomes outside of combat. In 4E, there's only skills. For example, there are plenty of D&D abilities from previous editions which can influence character reactions, charm characters, create illusions, or help the party move in unconventional ways. What made things so fun, too, was the ability to combine these abilities to come up with organic and original solutions to problems. One of my favorite examples of this was when were playing 3.x, in the middle of a city that was about to explode. The Dwarf PC was wearing heavy armor and didn't have enough movement to get out in time. We were going to watch him die. Desperately looking through my Wizard's spells, I noted that I was carrying Monster Summoning. I summoned up a [i]bison[/i] of all things and we got the dwarf on it and ran out of town just as it was about to explode. What I enjoyed about that scenario was that it wasn't just loosey-goosey roleplaying. It was taking a character ability and using it in a manner for which it was not intended at all. And using an ability primarily meant for combat outside of combat. Previous editions of D&D were filled with that. 4E unfortunately lacks much of that. [/QUOTE]

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