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<blockquote data-quote="Vyvyan Basterd" data-source="post: 4764775" data-attributes="member: 4892">But those abilities were locked into classes. You can track in 4E and you can spend feats to make yourself the best tracker in the party, without having to be the Ranger. You can do the job of the old Thief, or the parts you want to be skilled at, without being forced into being a Rogue. Why could only Thieves/Rogues find traps in previous editions? Ritual casters in 4E can scry, cure diseases, etc. With the proper skill checks you should still be allowed to identify pure water and you can make lore checks on any creature. The only example someone gave recently that doesn't exist is the monk's timeless body. And for all I know, there may be an epic destiny that grants just that or maybe we have to wait for the monk to reappear and the ability will appear in the Timeless Master epic destiny.Alot of the non-combat stuff is still there, its just not locked into the classes. And some of it has been balanced into rituals. Whether you like rituals or not is another matter, but it is there.What I was referring more to is the difference between a Samurai and Viking in 1E (before Oriental Adventures). You just described your Fighter as either one and wrote your background accordingly. In 2E (after kits were introduced) the trend started that you &quot;couldn't&quot; be a samurai or a viking unless you took the kit. In 3E it was a base class or a prestige class that defined you. I don't have a problem with new and intersting classes, but I like the advice in the 4E PHB to reflavor your PC as you wish. Its this imagination that makes characters fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Vyvyan Basterd, post: 4764775, member: 4892"] But those abilities were locked into classes. You can track in 4E and you can spend feats to make yourself the best tracker in the party, without having to be the Ranger. You can do the job of the old Thief, or the parts you want to be skilled at, without being forced into being a Rogue. Why could only Thieves/Rogues find traps in previous editions? Ritual casters in 4E can scry, cure diseases, etc. With the proper skill checks you should still be allowed to identify pure water and you can make lore checks on any creature. The only example someone gave recently that doesn't exist is the monk's timeless body. And for all I know, there may be an epic destiny that grants just that or maybe we have to wait for the monk to reappear and the ability will appear in the Timeless Master epic destiny. Alot of the non-combat stuff is still there, its just not locked into the classes. And some of it has been balanced into rituals. Whether you like rituals or not is another matter, but it is there. What I was referring more to is the difference between a Samurai and Viking in 1E (before Oriental Adventures). You just described your Fighter as either one and wrote your background accordingly. In 2E (after kits were introduced) the trend started that you "couldn't" be a samurai or a viking unless you took the kit. In 3E it was a base class or a prestige class that defined you. I don't have a problem with new and intersting classes, but I like the advice in the 4E PHB to reflavor your PC as you wish. Its this imagination that makes characters fun. [/QUOTE]

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