Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked - Level-Based Systems and Non-Heroic PCs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5664176" data-attributes="member: 463"><p>I think what I like best is a game where level 1 PCs can be either zeroes or heroes, dependent only on how things are skinned (demographics of NPC/monster stats), so for an heroic game the PCs start relatively stronger compared to the setting baseline, but the PC stats themselves are identical.</p><p></p><p>I find that 4e D&D is good for this; 1st level PCs can be relatively weak novice adventurers, or distinctly heroic, depending only on how the opposition and friendly NPCs are statted. Eg in an heroic-from-start game the average human or hobgoblin soldier could be a 3rd level minion (eg the hobgoblin grunt in MM), the 1st level PCs fight squads of guardsmen to rescue the princess from the evil baron. In a novice-at-start game the average human or hobgoblin soldier could be a 3rd level standard monster (eg the human guard or hobgoblin soldier in MM), the 1st level PCs fight goblin brigands to rescue the baker's daughter from their boss, a hobgoblin soldier.</p><p></p><p>IME 3e and earlier didn't work so well for this approach (NPC power determines PC status) because 1st level PCs were so fragile, no matter how weak the opponents, and because the power gradient was so steep. </p><p></p><p>BTW I find the quote in the OP that saving a village from skeletons is 'not heroic' and unworthy of starting PCs to be pretty weird! I didn't watch Jason & the Argonauts fighting living skeletons to gain the Golden Fleece and think "Newbie Fetch-Quest, how dull!" I didn't watch "The Magnificent Seven" and think "They're fighting to protect a mere <em>village</em>?! Pathetic!" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 5664176, member: 463"] I think what I like best is a game where level 1 PCs can be either zeroes or heroes, dependent only on how things are skinned (demographics of NPC/monster stats), so for an heroic game the PCs start relatively stronger compared to the setting baseline, but the PC stats themselves are identical. I find that 4e D&D is good for this; 1st level PCs can be relatively weak novice adventurers, or distinctly heroic, depending only on how the opposition and friendly NPCs are statted. Eg in an heroic-from-start game the average human or hobgoblin soldier could be a 3rd level minion (eg the hobgoblin grunt in MM), the 1st level PCs fight squads of guardsmen to rescue the princess from the evil baron. In a novice-at-start game the average human or hobgoblin soldier could be a 3rd level standard monster (eg the human guard or hobgoblin soldier in MM), the 1st level PCs fight goblin brigands to rescue the baker's daughter from their boss, a hobgoblin soldier. IME 3e and earlier didn't work so well for this approach (NPC power determines PC status) because 1st level PCs were so fragile, no matter how weak the opponents, and because the power gradient was so steep. BTW I find the quote in the OP that saving a village from skeletons is 'not heroic' and unworthy of starting PCs to be pretty weird! I didn't watch Jason & the Argonauts fighting living skeletons to gain the Golden Fleece and think "Newbie Fetch-Quest, how dull!" I didn't watch "The Magnificent Seven" and think "They're fighting to protect a mere [I]village[/I]?! Pathetic!" :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked - Level-Based Systems and Non-Heroic PCs
Top