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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vyvyan Basterd" data-source="post: 5036392" data-attributes="member: 4892">This is not (unfortunately IMO) what the DMG1 suggests. They suggest picking primary skills that directly effect the success and secondary skills that indirectly effect the success or failure. They even suggest some skill uses be auto-failures (their example: Intimidating the King).The DMG1 isn't clear about whether a skill challenge is to be announced or not.The advice is to allow reasonable uses of skills outside of the framework of the skill challenge setup. Implicitly this is left up to that common sense we learned back in 1E.And it is this lack of understanding of even the initial skill challenge system that leaves people such as myself frustrated. Pointing to bad play within a skill challenge and then stating "4E skill challenges are bad!" is the equivalent to seeing each player have their character step one after another into a death trap in the tomb of horrors and claiming that "1E is bad!"The difference is that I have prepped some of my adjudication of possible courses of action ahead of time instead of waiting until we play and doing so on the fly. Just like 1E modules that gave consequences for particular courses of action. Different styles. Some prefer prep, other work better on the fly.No one can account for bad DMs. The same DM in your example could do the same thing in freeform play by deciding he's bored and not understanding dramatic pacing.A scene and its dramatic potential does not have to end just because the dicy (pun intended) parts have stopped rolling.Never said it was better than freeform play, just different. And it could be substantially worse just as easily as freeform play can be substantially worse. Just play with a DM that doesn't share your idea of common sense when a 1E module leaves all plan outcomes up to common sense. Very frustrating. I agree with the last statement above. Players who know that a skill challenge is taking place are akin to Dorothy seeing the old man behind the curtain.It gives DMs who wish to be prepared and have structure to have a framework to hang upon. It gives a structure to rewarding players for good play outside of combat. It formalizes the idea for a new DM that D&D is not just a combat miniatures game.It is still a resolution system. There is an end to my skill challenge, just not an end before other encounters begin. The mechanic is presented this way through example via WotC published adventures. The inspiration for mine cam from Demon Queen's Enclave."Holy grail" would infer that it is the best mechanic to use. It is just a tool that can be used to good or ill effect. Other methods are just as effective and may be more desirable to one's personal preferences. Maybe whoever else is giving you this hype and the holy grail has soured your mind to hearing more about good uses of skill challenges. But I see a great potential in their use and will continue to advocate for their use in fun ways.Agree. This is the kind of thought I'm trying to improve upon when building a skill challenge.And dismissing their value in infancy is no way to up their potential. That's why I keep advocating for better use of SCs.</blockquote>

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