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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4841430" data-attributes="member: 22779">Hang on though.  When did Monte cook do this?  There were no Hasbro suits overlooking 3e.  3e was pretty much at the printers by the time Hasbro bought WOTC.  But, my point remains the same, gamers LIKED minis.  Considering the use of minis is absolutely hard coded into the 3e ruleset, and the 3e ruleset was pretty damn popular, I'd say that that's pretty true.  You'd think if people hated minis, or using battlemaps, that after TEN YEARS of 3e, we'd see mini-less 3e clones.  But, for some reason, we don't.  If minis were so hated and reviled, you'd think Pathfinder would strip them out.  But, oh look, there they are right there.If minis were so hated and reviled, you'd think that other games wouldn't touch mini-centric rules, yet, we have things like Savage Worlds which is right there with minis rules.  I dunno, I guess it's because I've always played games that had minis rules.  Back in the day I played Star Frontiers which came with a bazillion minis.  Then I played Villains and Vigillantes, again, minis based combat.  Played loads of Battletech, both wargame and RPG.  Played Star Trek RPG.  Almost ten years of 3e using minis every single time.  I don't see the issue here.  RPG's, in my mind, have always equalled mini use.  We used them in 1e and 2e.  String and a protractor anyone?  So, for me, exploring the design space presented by tying the rules to a battle map does not equate with "compromising" the game.  It's taking a good thing and making it better.  But, it's something that, in my mind, has always been a fairly big part of gaming, so the shift for me is not as big as for some others.Oh, btw, Rounser, good to see you again.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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