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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4381461" data-attributes="member: 2011">25% decrease in damage output for one round for one creature (on average) for a Paladin that hits 50% of the time. So, that 25% just dropped to 12.5% on average for multiple rounds. If the Paladin does not do Enfeebling Strike every time, it drops even more. For one creature, this might drop its damage per round average by 10% at low level and maybe 5% at high level (assuming Enfeebling Strike is used a lot).The creature that does 30 points of damage per attack 50% of the time averages 15 points of damage per round.If the creature was lowered by -6 (the other -4 you mention and the -2 for Divine Challenge), it would average 6 points of damage per round. So, lowering it another -2 does drop it by 50%. But, it is 50% of 6 points. It does an average of 3 points of damage per round instead of 6 from the other conditions.This is a creature that averages 15 points per round lowered to 3. Enfeebling is a very small part of that. It contributes 3 of the 12 reduction. The majority of that reduction comes from the other modifiers, not from Enfeebling.Now, this might work well for a solo. But, it's totally worthless on minions. And, if multiple PCs are ganging up on one monster to give it a -8 to hit, then in many 4 or 5 monster encounters, the other 3 or 4 monsters are often going to be at -0. There's just not enough gas in the tank to do this to all opponents.And of course, any monster can focus attacks on the Paladin so that it does not get the -2.28 points of damage per encounter = 56 points of damage per two encounters.What monster does 56 points of damage in the single attack that was stopped (or does x points of damage and incapacitates a PC for typically a round so that the PC cannot do any damage where the total of x and the damage the PC would have done is = 56)?Personally, I think 56 points of damage is a LOT more effective than preventing 15 to 25 points of damage and possibly a totally debilitating condition (not all conditions are totally debilitating, nor do all attacks have conditions, nor do all conditions last for more than a round).But to be fair, I suspect many 30th level Str Paladins will only have about a 20 Wisdom, not a 24 (but still, that's 40 points of damage in two encounters) because of MAD.I'm not sure Bolstering Strike stops nearly that much for most Paladins.Paladins are MAD PCs. Str/Cha, Wis and even a bit of Con and (Dex or Int). Something has to give and that something is sometimes Wisdom, especially for a Chaladin who already has the good Will save from Cha.And, if a Chaladin is using Bolstering Strike, he is not using Enfeebling Strike as often.I think people are drastically overemphasizing the utility and power of a -2 to hit (when it does help which tends to be less than 5% of the time at low level and a LOT less than 5% of the time at high level).</blockquote>

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