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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 4437000" data-attributes="member: 19675">I think that by advancing the mystic powers of 2 classes, they give the PC too much.Sure, there is a little bit of a penalty imposed by the double class prerequisites, but once you get past that hurdle, you're getting nearly everything 2 classes have to offer...at least, the meat of them.So I prefer spellcasting hybrids like the Geomancer, in which you must choose which spellcasting class gets advanced, or those in which the PrCl has its own unique spell list.They're rare, I know, and they got rarer with each expansion.  Most of the spellcasting PrCls with dual class prereqs follow the theurge model.By that, I know I'm the minority opinion on this.But just to clear things up, know that I don't BAN those PrCls, or penalize people for choosing them.  My dislike remains, but that is one area in which I don't impose my opinion on my campaign design.Heck, I even have one (and only one) PC who uses the Mystic Theurge class- a Drow Rgr/MU/Druid converted from 1Ed to 3Ed as a Druid/SpecWiz Transmuter/MT.  (It was the only way to carryover the spellcasting potential of the original into the updated 20 year old campaign.)Again, I see VoP as one (badly worded) way of playing an ascetic, but its not the only way.I have personally played an ascetic Paladin who did just fine.  VoP was not specifically disallowed, but BoED was not on the allowed sources list- it was just Core + Completes (no Psionics).Without all the VoP bonuses, she eschewed all armor except some leather armor, used IUC, a quarterstaff and sling as her weapons (eventually, both armor and staff became enchanted).  In fact, by her culture, she was forbidden from using better equipment because she was from the Laborer's Caste.  Wearing better armor or carrying a "real" weapon would have been grounds for execution.Still, she contributed to the advancement of party goals just fine.Could she be played like a normal Pally?  Of course not- she was not a front-line fighter.  But she was fun and interesting to play...and definitely viable without VoP.As for VoP itself, I don't see it as a "hybrid" of anything.  Its an attempt to model in a single feat the status of someone as a "saint." (Yes, I know there is a Saint PrCl, but as a warrior-esque class it's rather atypical of the people who actually get awarded that status IRL- few of them are actually warriors.)It probably would have been better as a PrCl itself, but that's not what they did.</blockquote>

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