Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: D&D: Generic and Specific Both?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 4569282" data-attributes="member: 10201"><p>Woah! Maybe you read a different thread than i just did. But the opening post very clearly was talking about what D&D <strong>is</strong>, not what it <strong>should be</strong>. This is a descriptive, not prescriptive, discussion. </p><p></p><p>And, speaking descriptively, it's the stuff that has been there through most, if not all, the lifespan of D&D that is what defines it. With an emphasis on those elements that are unique--entirely, or in context--to D&D. So, swords are a key element of D&D, frex, but not a defining element, because damn near every fantasy game has swords. However, D&D clerics <strong>are</strong> a defining element of D&D, because they have a very specific definition, and one that is relatively specific to D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're kidding on this one, right? It's because the first is a decade or more older, was created by the original creators of D&D, and has been a part of the [core] ruleset since at least AD&D1. It's as simple as that: older stuff has precedence over newer stuff, simply by virtue of being older. The longer something has been part of the game, the more it is part of that game. It's a general assumption that we make all the time when trying to define the essential nature of something. It's why Mickey Mouse is Disney's icon, even though he hasn't appeared in a feature movie in <em>how</em> many decades?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And it's my favorite edition, to date. Precisely because it was the most generic, but--and this is key--still retained all of what i thought were the core "D&Disms". It still had Vancian magic, D&D-style clerics and druids, beholders and mindflayers and color-coded dragons, etc. I mean, i had my problems with it, and had a pretty hefty set of houserules when i ran it. But fewer problems, and fewer houserules "required", than for any edition before or since.</p><p></p><p>In any case, I'm not sure you're right about the reasons that it was generally reviled (as opposed to your or my reasons). I think the biggest problem, from a market-satisfaction standpoint, was that it shifted too far from tactical to narrative in focus. But not far enough to actually be a <strong>good</strong> narrative-style RPG. So it ended up being fairly poor at supporting the sort of gameplay that D&D had, up until that point, championed, and not particularly good at supporting any other sort of gameplay--so you didn't gain enough to make up for what you lost, even if you were style-agnostic. Most of the people i've talked with who truly liked AD&D2 were like me: don't really care about the rules, just want cool characters and cool stories, so as long as the rules get out of our way, we're happy. And AD&D2 did the best job of getting out of the way, of any edition of D&D so far, precisely because it was relatively generic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="woodelf, post: 4569282, member: 10201"] Woah! Maybe you read a different thread than i just did. But the opening post very clearly was talking about what D&D [b]is[/b], not what it [b]should be[/b]. This is a descriptive, not prescriptive, discussion. And, speaking descriptively, it's the stuff that has been there through most, if not all, the lifespan of D&D that is what defines it. With an emphasis on those elements that are unique--entirely, or in context--to D&D. So, swords are a key element of D&D, frex, but not a defining element, because damn near every fantasy game has swords. However, D&D clerics [b]are[/b] a defining element of D&D, because they have a very specific definition, and one that is relatively specific to D&D. You're kidding on this one, right? It's because the first is a decade or more older, was created by the original creators of D&D, and has been a part of the [core] ruleset since at least AD&D1. It's as simple as that: older stuff has precedence over newer stuff, simply by virtue of being older. The longer something has been part of the game, the more it is part of that game. It's a general assumption that we make all the time when trying to define the essential nature of something. It's why Mickey Mouse is Disney's icon, even though he hasn't appeared in a feature movie in [i]how[/i] many decades? And it's my favorite edition, to date. Precisely because it was the most generic, but--and this is key--still retained all of what i thought were the core "D&Disms". It still had Vancian magic, D&D-style clerics and druids, beholders and mindflayers and color-coded dragons, etc. I mean, i had my problems with it, and had a pretty hefty set of houserules when i ran it. But fewer problems, and fewer houserules "required", than for any edition before or since. In any case, I'm not sure you're right about the reasons that it was generally reviled (as opposed to your or my reasons). I think the biggest problem, from a market-satisfaction standpoint, was that it shifted too far from tactical to narrative in focus. But not far enough to actually be a [b]good[/b] narrative-style RPG. So it ended up being fairly poor at supporting the sort of gameplay that D&D had, up until that point, championed, and not particularly good at supporting any other sort of gameplay--so you didn't gain enough to make up for what you lost, even if you were style-agnostic. Most of the people i've talked with who truly liked AD&D2 were like me: don't really care about the rules, just want cool characters and cool stories, so as long as the rules get out of our way, we're happy. And AD&D2 did the best job of getting out of the way, of any edition of D&D so far, precisely because it was relatively generic. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: D&D: Generic and Specific Both?
Top