Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrunkonDuty" data-source="post: 4420919" data-attributes="member: 54364">Hi Mercurius, great question. So I'm here at my desk, reaching around a bunch half-painted plastic minis (and accompanying rubbish) to type this. I mention because here's one aspect of the hobby that (in my experience) gets a bit more respect from the wider community. I'm guessing it's because at the end of the day you have some physical thing to show for your work. Folks usually say something like 'Wow! That's... impressive.' Never 'cool' or 'great artwork.' <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> Also I suspect it's because minis overlap part of a wider phenomena: modelling. So it's already got an 'in' if you will. Most males played a bit with model kits when they were kids. (Not so many females that I know of but would love to hear from anyone whose experience is different.) It's familiar. But it's a familiarity that is associated with childhood. I usually explain RPGs as playing dress-ups, without the dressing up. This may not be the best way to encourage people to view the game as being mature. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek!    :o"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" /> It does explain the concept well enough but from now on I think I shall borrow Nork's description:   Sort of skirting the main question. Sorry. But it's a big one. Needs much cogitation (and I have hangover.)  I'll start by saying that I consider there to be a great deal of good art in RPGs. The playing, writing, world creation and visual art. The visual art is probably the most accessible. Well, the good stuff. Much of the stuff that finds its way into RPG books is not so good, a positive turn off much like bad comic book art. But there's plenty of art work that's inspired by RPGS and Fantasy and Sci-fi literature that is good.  Sudden thought: is it perhaps that, not only is the concept of playing dress up associated with childhood but the fact that the most well known RPG deals quite explicitly with things (dragons) considered to be firmly in the realm of childhood doesn't help sell the idea that RPGs are mature art? To those of us in the know (and it's not just us gamers but people of discernment everywhere) children's art is every bit as valid as adult art. In many cases the children's art is much more sophisticated than the stuff intended for adults. I'm specifically thinking TV here. Much adult fare is shockingly awful. Especially thinking soaps here but not just them. It's  candy for the brain, dealing with issues only ever in the most superficial manner. Kids TV is usually much more well thought out and challenging for its intended audience. TV makes a point of giving kids edifying TV. Most countries have laws insisting on it. But kids TV is still written off as being inferior.  Think of a show like Degrassi (sorry but I'm not really up on current kids' shows.) It hit the big issues. Yes, the issues dealt with seem pretty everyday to us adults but for the kids it's new, it's relevent, it's thought provoking, it's pushing boundaries. IN short: it's good art. HArry Potter! There ya go, more or less current and neatly straddles the line of mainstream and fantasy. Old Harry is popular because he is relevent for the intended audience. His issues are the same as the audience's. If Harry didn't have to deal with all the real world issues of being a teen and growing up (and in a context that is familiar enough, being school) he wouldn't have an nth of the popularity that he does. How to get RPGs relevent to a wider audience? Well we could do a reality TV show in which attractive wanna-be super models have to play it. That'd get public interest for the game. Joke. Kinda. What RPGs need is a platform on which they can be shown as being more mature. This is what Heinlein etc got in Playboy. This most adult of magazines also happened to publish lots of sci-fi. (yes, there are articles!) SCi-fi got maturity by association. Of course if they stuff being published was just the same old Flash Gordon-esque pulp it would never have been taken seriously. (No, I'm not saying sci-fi gained respectability thanks to solely to Playboy, this is merely an example.) So what is the essence of all this random waffle: RPGs need to tackle issues of interest to wider audiences. And to be seen to do so. Basically that's it. They can still do it from within the fantasy metaphor. Or the sci-fi metaphor or whatever genre you like to play.  What platforms are there that could work:  well the interweb leaps to mind. There's all these MMORPGs out there. Can anyone see a way in which these could be used to help their old ancestor gain a bit of respect (or at least notice?) Maybe books with titles like: The (visual) Art of Roleplaying. Or The Actor's Guide to RPGs. Even articles written for serious, non-RPG forums (fora?) I'm always going on about world building and the sort of things I put into it and what I like to see. Some of this may actually be of relevance to the wider artisitic community. It would take actual effort on the part of interested parties though. Most serious art and culture magazines aren't going to be interested in articles on RPGs, a writer would have to work hard to sell them. Like most art I think it will always be niche. Even if it gets respectable.  PS: If art is suffering for it then I'm doing a bit right now as my shoulders cramp from holding my arms above the table and trying to type. Just some thoughts.  Cheers,Glen</blockquote>

Verification