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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Korgoth" data-source="post: 4521141" data-attributes="member: 49613">Ultimately, they managed to do both. Obviously to speak about this is to speak in generalities... individuals will tend more or less to differ.There are people who continually deride, bash and vilify D&D and the sort of game it was originally intended to be (exploration of sprawling underworlds, strategic management of resources and hirelings for perilous treks, etc.). They have many times pronounced such gaming dead, have celebrated those pronouncements and belittled those who enjoy such play. Simply put, these people angrily prefer Hero, Rolemaster, GURPS or some other game to D&D and want to see traditional D&D die out. For these people, I don't think 4E went far enough. If what you really want is "GURPS Fantasy released under the D&D brand name and lavishly supported by a successful company" then 4E is going to seem like it takes steps in the 'right' direction but ultimately fails to seal the deal.Then there are those who enjoy traditional D&D style play (as above, a game of exploration and strategy). For them, I would say 4E definitely goes too far, because it removes many of the elements which are conducive to that style of play. In particular, exploration takes it on the chin because there is an evident abandonment of any conceit of a consistent/persistent world for the PCs to explore. Mearls himself basically summed it up when he commented on the difference between 4E and OD&D: in OD&D, players will confront a puzzle or situation like something in a story and try to think their way through it; in 4E, players will use their mastery of the rules to overcome it (that's a paraphrase; I'm sure the original quote is floating around). Also, while there are many younger players still at this late date getting into traditional D&D, many of the adherents of this type of play are thirtysomethings or older. These people's interests in fantasy were formed more by Tolkien and Howard and less by Naruto and FF7 (note: I thought FF7 was a fun game).So I think you're looking at a deeply divided fanbase for several reasons. For some, 4E is good but not good enough to stop playing the game they liked better than D&D in the first place. For others, 4E is too great a departure from their preferred style. Obviously, for some 4E is just right and a perfect hybrid of the divergent schools. For others, D&D brand loyalty is so strong that they would play the current edition pretty much no matter what. Obviously sales are good right now... a lot of people are trying 4E to see if they like it. Personally, I project that it will eventually founder in part because a lot of people are going to decide that it doesn't really feel like D&D, or that they could get roughly the same experience with WoW or Descent. But that's my prognostication, and I'm no better at that than anybody else when we're talking about economics. Even if I were a trained marketing analyst it would still be just a coin toss!</blockquote>

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