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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4530082" data-attributes="member: 48965">Ok, I'll give you Diplomacy, maybe Bluff, though the rest are stretching since they have in-combat or in-dungeon applications.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yet we have &quot;Thievery&quot;, &quot;Stealth&quot;, &quot;Perception&quot; etc. which all encompass numerous actual skills and abilities. &nbsp;&nbsp;Uhm, I'm confused...how is &quot;Leadership&quot; narrowly focused...when it encompasses so much. I think one of the problems is that 4e has both broadly defined skills (Thievery) and narrow skills(Bluff). It's kind of confusing on what approach it's actually striving for.&nbsp;&nbsp;So in order to be a good Thief...I just need Thievery (Okay, maybe Stealth), but in order to be a good leader...I need Diplomacy, History, Intimidate and Insight&nbsp;As far as Tracking vs. Hunting goes. Being able to Track something is exactly that, it doesn't teach you how to use a particular weapon to kill it, what environment your prey is found in, I believe Hunting would encompass tracking...the same way Thievery encompasses opening locks...but neither work in reverse. Again we run into 4e's disparity between broadly defined skills vs. narrower skills. &nbsp;&nbsp;Again, why do you need these skills in order to make something. Every craftsperson is not a star athlete, an acrobat, a historian or a long distance runner...yet your proposed solution requires them to be all these things to have skills in blacksmithing.&nbsp;&nbsp;I think the skill system needs to first decide if it is based around broadly defined and open to interpretation skills vs. narrowly defined, specific skills...then it can start to be used in the way you describe...not the mish-mash it is now.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yet wouldn't a leadership skill give an overall impression of how well you combine these skills in leadership situations...thus you might be good at negotiating with men you lead, but totally unfit to negotiate in a situation where you have no power over those you are negotiating with...or even where they have power over you. While someone with the Diplomacy skill is just a good all around negotiator in a variety of situations, but wouldn't know how to handle a situation in which they are commanding an unruly mob of mercenaries who only respect brute strength and fierceness(intimidate skill).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 4530082, member: 48965"] Ok, I'll give you Diplomacy, maybe Bluff, though the rest are stretching since they have in-combat or in-dungeon applications. Yet we have "Thievery", "Stealth", "Perception" etc. which all encompass numerous actual skills and abilities. Uhm, I'm confused...how is "Leadership" narrowly focused...when it encompasses so much. I think one of the problems is that 4e has both broadly defined skills (Thievery) and narrow skills(Bluff). It's kind of confusing on what approach it's actually striving for. So in order to be a good Thief...I just need Thievery (Okay, maybe Stealth), but in order to be a good leader...I need Diplomacy, History, Intimidate and Insight As far as Tracking vs. Hunting goes. Being able to Track something is exactly that, it doesn't teach you how to use a particular weapon to kill it, what environment your prey is found in, I believe Hunting would encompass tracking...the same way Thievery encompasses opening locks...but neither work in reverse. Again we run into 4e's disparity between broadly defined skills vs. narrower skills. Again, why do you need these skills in order to make something. Every craftsperson is not a star athlete, an acrobat, a historian or a long distance runner...yet your proposed solution requires them to be all these things to have skills in blacksmithing. I think the skill system needs to first decide if it is based around broadly defined and open to interpretation skills vs. narrowly defined, specific skills...then it can start to be used in the way you describe...not the mish-mash it is now. Yet wouldn't a leadership skill give an overall impression of how well you combine these skills in leadership situations...thus you might be good at negotiating with men you lead, but totally unfit to negotiate in a situation where you have no power over those you are negotiating with...or even where they have power over you. While someone with the Diplomacy skill is just a good all around negotiator in a variety of situations, but wouldn't know how to handle a situation in which they are commanding an unruly mob of mercenaries who only respect brute strength and fierceness(intimidate skill). [/QUOTE]

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