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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4535517" data-attributes="member: 63272">It's not a gameplay issue, its in the system.&nbsp; The conclusion you draw when evaluating the game systems is that, in 3e, the class/level relationship has shifted.&nbsp; Levels are a commodity in 3e, and at each one you choose a class.&nbsp; It's step 1 in the level up rules.&nbsp; The multiclassing rules are built for diping into classes for a suite of abilities.&nbsp; Anything you add to that in regards to story or RP is your own.&nbsp; &nbsp; Core doesn't mean PHB only.&nbsp; There is a section in th MM with rules for playing a number of races not given the full treatment in the PHB.&nbsp; It is not a house rule to play a gnome.&nbsp; Calling your fighter a barbarian is not a houserule either.&nbsp; It's a title.&nbsp; He was a gnome fighter, at first.No.&nbsp; They explain this in the books.&nbsp; They gave brief write ups for a number of playable races in the MM.&nbsp; They intended to give these races the full treatment in supplements down the road.&nbsp; The first was Warforged in Dragon.&nbsp; It has nothing to do with playtesting or revisions.&nbsp;I don't doubt you at all.&nbsp; But that makes your stubborn unwillingess to treat 4e characters the same way you go on to claim to treat all your character concepts - forming the concept then studying the mechanics of the system for the best way to bring it to life.&nbsp; Instead, you seem insistent on sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting &quot;nu-huh&quot; to any suggestions on how it can be done.&nbsp; Reflavoring is not a house rule.&nbsp; Flavor and minor tweaks like changing damage types is something that IS part of the RAW of 4e.&nbsp; It IS part of the game system.&nbsp; So you can't disqualify it in an attempt to disqualify the means to achieve certain concepts.Yeah, no doubt druids are a bit difficult right now in 4e.&nbsp; Won't be long until we've got em, though.&nbsp; Meanwhile, it would be fairly simple to utilize what is there to build your own version.&nbsp; There are a few builds available on EnWorld.A) Reflavoring is RAW in 4e.B) No we're not.&nbsp; We are talking about converting concepts between editions.&nbsp; That very often requires a bit of tweaking.&nbsp; The important thing about conversion is not some weird adherence of core to core only or strictly to some intepretation of RAW, but to achieving a mechanical realization of the concept.Only a failure to be creative and follow the spirit of the game would kill the campaign.&nbsp; That's up to you.&nbsp; If you had any interest in playing 4e in the first place, then you wouldn't be arguing that conversion was impossible, you'd simply be thinking of ways to make it work.&nbsp; We seem to have two different goals here.&nbsp; You seem to want to play 'gotcha' with the system in some effort to &quot;prove&quot; it is inferior to 3e.&nbsp; I want to test the limits of the new system and find ways to make things work, not ways to hit a roadblock and turn around and go the other way.&nbsp; &nbsp;Every system has its limitations, even 3e.&nbsp; Not every concept is going to be available out of the box in any edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4535517, member: 63272"] It's not a gameplay issue, its in the system. The conclusion you draw when evaluating the game systems is that, in 3e, the class/level relationship has shifted. Levels are a commodity in 3e, and at each one you choose a class. It's step 1 in the level up rules. The multiclassing rules are built for diping into classes for a suite of abilities. Anything you add to that in regards to story or RP is your own. Core doesn't mean PHB only. There is a section in th MM with rules for playing a number of races not given the full treatment in the PHB. It is not a house rule to play a gnome. Calling your fighter a barbarian is not a houserule either. It's a title. He was a gnome fighter, at first. No. They explain this in the books. They gave brief write ups for a number of playable races in the MM. They intended to give these races the full treatment in supplements down the road. The first was Warforged in Dragon. It has nothing to do with playtesting or revisions. I don't doubt you at all. But that makes your stubborn unwillingess to treat 4e characters the same way you go on to claim to treat all your character concepts - forming the concept then studying the mechanics of the system for the best way to bring it to life. Instead, you seem insistent on sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "nu-huh" to any suggestions on how it can be done. Reflavoring is not a house rule. Flavor and minor tweaks like changing damage types is something that IS part of the RAW of 4e. It IS part of the game system. So you can't disqualify it in an attempt to disqualify the means to achieve certain concepts. Yeah, no doubt druids are a bit difficult right now in 4e. Won't be long until we've got em, though. Meanwhile, it would be fairly simple to utilize what is there to build your own version. There are a few builds available on EnWorld. A) Reflavoring is RAW in 4e. B) No we're not. We are talking about converting concepts between editions. That very often requires a bit of tweaking. The important thing about conversion is not some weird adherence of core to core only or strictly to some intepretation of RAW, but to achieving a mechanical realization of the concept. Only a failure to be creative and follow the spirit of the game would kill the campaign. That's up to you. If you had any interest in playing 4e in the first place, then you wouldn't be arguing that conversion was impossible, you'd simply be thinking of ways to make it work. We seem to have two different goals here. You seem to want to play 'gotcha' with the system in some effort to "prove" it is inferior to 3e. I want to test the limits of the new system and find ways to make things work, not ways to hit a roadblock and turn around and go the other way. Every system has its limitations, even 3e. Not every concept is going to be available out of the box in any edition. [/QUOTE]

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