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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 4536725" data-attributes="member: 19675">There is no way to bring to life a PC concept for whom the necessary mechanics are entirely absent from the game.&nbsp; I don't see how you can possibly keep missing that point.And as the new versions are filtering to us, they have different mechanics, and thus, different fell and balance within the game.&nbsp; Check out the thread about playing Minotaurs- <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/244251-playing-minotaurs.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/244251-playing-minotaurs.html</a>The people posting in it point out the different effects on game balance between the Core version and the one from the expansion. If they were just about &quot;full treatments&quot; they wouldn't be fundamentally altering some of the race's mechanics.&nbsp; Clearly, someone noted the effect of certain mechanics on game play- it seemed obvious to the posters- and changed them.Furthermore, this means that NPC minotaurs and PC minotaurs differ in capabilities- something I really dislike- and PCs even differ from which set of rules got used.That is quite insulting, not just to me, but the other frustrated would-be player/purchasers of 4Ed in that group.&nbsp; We've kept this campaign running though 20+ years and 3+ editions and you think we're not following the spirit of the game?&nbsp; Give me a freakin' break.I've told you that a major PC in the campaign is absolutely not supported in 4Ed's Core- the shapeshifting non-blaster mage- and you say I'm not &quot;creative?&quot;And that PC isn't the only one facing similar lack of support.&nbsp; Of the arcane spellcaster PCs in the campaign (PCs ranging from 3rd to what is currently termed &quot;epic&quot;), one and only one is primarily a blaster.The spirit of 4Ed mages seems 'Lets blow stuff up reel good, hyuk, hyuk.&quot;&nbsp; A campaign in which &quot;transmuters,&quot; &quot;diviners,&quot; &quot;illusionists&quot; and &quot;enchanters&quot; predominate simply doesn't translate into 4Ed.And the lack of support isn't limited to the mages.&nbsp; Its just the most glaring and most pervasive.If there is a failure of creativity and imagination on anyone's part, it is on the heads of 4Ed designers who sorely underestimated the popularity of playing subtle casters instead of 2-legged howitzers.Are there expansions in the works for supporting some our concepts?&nbsp; Sure, but who wants to spend an extra $30+ and wait a year or more</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 4536725, member: 19675"] There is no way to bring to life a PC concept for whom the necessary mechanics are [I]entirely[/I] absent from the game. I don't see how you can possibly keep missing that point. And as the new versions are filtering to us, they have different mechanics, and thus, different fell and balance within the game. Check out the thread about playing Minotaurs- [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/244251-playing-minotaurs.html[/url] The people posting in it point out the different effects on game balance between the Core version and the one from the expansion. If they were just about "full treatments" they wouldn't be fundamentally altering some of the race's mechanics. [I]Clearly,[/I] someone noted the effect of certain mechanics on game play- it seemed obvious to the posters- and [B]changed [/B]them. Furthermore, this means that NPC minotaurs and PC minotaurs differ in capabilities- something I really dislike- and PCs even differ from which set of rules got used. That is quite insulting, not just to me, but the other frustrated would-be player/purchasers of 4Ed in that group. We've kept this campaign running though 20+ years and 3+ editions and you think we're not following the spirit of the game? [I]Give me a freakin' break.[/I] I've told you that a major PC in the campaign is [I]absolutely not supported[/I] in 4Ed's Core- the shapeshifting non-blaster mage- and you say I'm not "creative?" And that PC isn't the only one facing similar lack of support. Of the arcane spellcaster PCs in the campaign (PCs ranging from 3rd to what is currently termed "epic"), one and [I]only [/I]one is primarily a blaster. The spirit of 4Ed mages seems 'Lets blow stuff up reel good, hyuk, hyuk." A campaign in which "transmuters," "diviners," "illusionists" and "enchanters" predominate simply doesn't translate into 4Ed. And the lack of support isn't limited to the mages. Its just the most glaring and most pervasive. If there is a failure of creativity and imagination on anyone's part, it is on the heads of 4Ed designers who sorely underestimated the popularity of playing subtle casters instead of 2-legged howitzers. Are there expansions in the works for supporting some our concepts? Sure, but who wants to spend an extra $30+ and wait a year or more [/QUOTE]

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