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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 4640306" data-attributes="member: 12306">Total agreement about 4E and immersion.  Immersion and narration are (perhaps unfortunately) very closely linked, which covers most of your point 1.  I have more points related to it in (3).You partly missed my point.  In 4e, you are either alive and kicking or dead.  Incapacitation will last for rounds, at most.  This kills a whole lot of "narration space", and also (in the absence of magical healing) makes life a whole lot more complicated immersion-wise.Note that the fighter will be *at full, with full healing surges* after an extended rest, even though his gaping chest wound is still there.  He isn't being a bad-ass for fighting with a gaping chest wound, instead he is being a pansy for caring about gaping chest wounds in the first place, since they don't actually threaten his continued existence.  Under such narration, characters quite literally don't actually need functioning aortas (or any other body-part).And that is a problem, if you want to narrate wounds, because you are going to take immersion out behind the shed and shoot it in the face.  This is a distinct step backwards from previous editions, where you *could* narrate wounds (and thereby enhance immersion) relatively easily.  If you don't have immersion, you might as well be playing a board game (or a CRPG).  Immersion is the trump card that pen and paper games hold.This is also why (going back to the original point of the thread), when the distinction can be made at all literature/TV show/movies references etc... almost invariably do not follow the healing-surge mechanic.  Immersion and narration are, after all, crucial in those arenas.</blockquote>

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