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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4641026" data-attributes="member: 48965">emphasis mine... you state right here you and your players could care less about handwaving the narrative, so really you are exactly the group I was saying would like 4e, you are concerned with the binary answers the mechanics give you and feel no need to relate them to narrative or simulation. What I find hard to believe is that you can't fathom some people put other aspects such as narrative or simulation on an equal or higher level than mechanics.Of course you don't find it any harder than 3e... your group doesn't put to high a priority on the meshing of mechanics and narrative...so of course it's no different for you all.Here we go with this argument... if it's abstraction level was 4 what does it matter if it's a 10 now...it's still abstract.  Well honestly the difference can be the same as having a minor cut and having an artery cut...but they're both still cuts right?  Wrong, I'll take the minor cut.That's great for your group, but really I find it hard to believe that people don't realize it has become more abstract in nature... I mean is this even up for debate still?</blockquote>