Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4641305" data-attributes="member: 336">I don't buy it.&nbsp; Immersion and narration are not needs of the rules, they are simply needs of certain players.The &quot;problem&quot; that 4e Healing Surges &quot;fixes&quot; is the dependency on magical healing, but more importantly the associated baggage needed to support it.&nbsp; In 3e the &quot;default&quot; assumption was that magic was a resource just as HP are a resource.&nbsp; You could easily acquire a CLW wand.&nbsp; Which is all that is really needed for &quot;rapid healing.&quot;&nbsp; Therefore the &quot;default&quot; assumption of 3e is that &quot;rapid healing&quot; is just a function of spending 750gp.&nbsp; The associated baggage is having a healer or a rogue with &quot;use magic device&quot; in the party.&nbsp; This built a dependency in the game for healing magic casters.&nbsp; So the default assumption is that &quot;rapid healing&quot; is just a speed bump away.Some DMs didn't want &quot;rapid healing&quot; so they made it more difficult or impossible to acquire the magic necessary for it.&nbsp; This is obviously not the default assumption of the rules.4e does the exact same thing.&nbsp; The &quot;default&quot; assumption is that rapid healing is just a speed bump away.&nbsp; All you need is an extended rest.&nbsp; However, 4e went one step further and removed the associated baggage.&nbsp; Now you don't need a healing magic caster to get &quot;fully healed&quot;, with the caveat &quot;if you take an extended rest.&quot;&nbsp; Which I think is the best feature of this.By the same token and assumption as in 3e, DM's that don't want &quot;rapid healing, can also make it so.&nbsp; All the mechanics are there to support it.&nbsp; The same way that &quot;increasing the difficulty of acquiring CLW wands&quot; is a houserule.&nbsp; If you don't want &quot;non-magical rapid healing&quot; you have multiple options.&nbsp; Choose the one that best fits your play style:1.)&nbsp; Healing Surges are only recovered at the rate of 1 per level with an extended rest.2.)&nbsp; Require that &quot;rapid healing&quot; be magical in nature.&nbsp; Use rituals, to spend an appropriate amount of resources (gp) to recover &quot;Healing Surges&quot;3.)&nbsp; Limit the possibility of an extended rest.&nbsp; If your characters are being hunted and pursued, it becomes difficult to take an extended rest.4.)&nbsp; Interrupt the extended rest.&nbsp; Have the enemies attack when the characters are resting.5.)&nbsp; Use the &quot;disease track&quot; mechanic to slow down rapid healing.&nbsp; Whenever you fail a &quot;death save&quot; you are placed on a &quot;WOUNDS TRACK&quot;.&nbsp; At the end of the encounter you make a number of saves equal to the number of failed death saves (2 max obviously, since at 3 you're dead).&nbsp; If you fail that save you immediately lose a healing surge.&nbsp; Each day you must make an endurance check to see if your wounds are healed.&nbsp; DC X Improve, you regain a healing surge.&nbsp; DC Y Maintain, no effect.&nbsp; DC Z Worse, you lose an additional healing surge.&nbsp; All these healing surges can be recovered by the use of &quot;healing magic&quot;I understand the apprehension of some.&nbsp; At first the shift seems weird, until you see that 3e tried to do the same thing but did it with additional mechanics that were cumbersome, simple bean-counting and no more than a speed bump.No edition of D&amp;D has provided for &quot;long term&quot; wounding.&nbsp; Some say that HP is a measure of long term wounding but it obviously can't be since at 5 HP you are as capable of continuing to fight as at 200HP.&nbsp; HP only measure how long you have before you are no longer able to fight.4e provides a very fun way of playing a &quot;heroic fantasy&quot; game.&nbsp; The fact that you have to houserule long term injury is not any different that previous editions.&nbsp; In addition, it got rid of the bean-counting that unnecessarily created a burden for continuing the adventure.&nbsp; If you like the bean-counting and want to &quot;simulate&quot; long term injury then any of the houserules I detailed above serve that purpose.However, saying that the game does not provide enough or any mechanics to approximate the type of play experience you want is not entirely true.I'm not going to convince anyone with this.&nbsp; I'm just going to keep on playing and DMing and having a blast doing it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="D'karr, post: 4641305, member: 336"] I don't buy it. Immersion and narration are not [B]needs of the rules[/B], they are simply needs of certain players. The "problem" that 4e Healing Surges "fixes" is the [B]dependency[/B] on magical healing, but more importantly the associated baggage needed to support it. In 3e the "default" assumption was that magic was a resource just as HP are a resource. You could easily acquire a CLW wand. Which is all that is really needed for "rapid healing." Therefore the "default" assumption of 3e is that "rapid healing" is just a function of spending 750gp. The associated baggage is having a healer or a rogue with "use magic device" in the party. This built a dependency in the game for healing magic casters. So the default assumption is that "rapid healing" is just a speed bump away. Some DMs didn't want "rapid healing" so they made it more difficult or impossible to acquire the magic necessary for it. This is obviously not the default assumption of the rules. 4e does the exact same thing. The "default" assumption is that rapid healing is just a speed bump away. All you need is an extended rest. However, 4e went one step further and removed the associated baggage. Now you don't need a healing magic caster to get "fully healed", with the caveat "if you take an extended rest." Which I think is the best feature of this. By the same token and assumption as in 3e, DM's that don't want "rapid healing, can also make it so. All the mechanics are there to support it. The same way that "increasing the difficulty of acquiring CLW wands" is a houserule. If you don't want "non-magical rapid healing" you have multiple options. Choose the one that best fits your play style: 1.) Healing Surges are only recovered at the rate of 1 per level with an extended rest. 2.) Require that "rapid healing" be magical in nature. Use rituals, to spend an appropriate amount of resources (gp) to recover "Healing Surges" 3.) Limit the possibility of an extended rest. If your characters are being hunted and pursued, it becomes difficult to take an extended rest. 4.) Interrupt the extended rest. Have the enemies attack when the characters are resting. 5.) Use the "disease track" mechanic to slow down rapid healing. Whenever you fail a "death save" you are placed on a "WOUNDS TRACK". At the end of the encounter you make a number of saves equal to the number of failed death saves (2 max obviously, since at 3 you're dead). If you fail that save you immediately lose a healing surge. Each day you must make an endurance check to see if your wounds are healed. DC X Improve, you regain a healing surge. DC Y Maintain, no effect. DC Z Worse, you lose an additional healing surge. All these healing surges can be recovered by the use of "healing magic" I understand the apprehension of some. At first the shift seems weird, until you see that 3e tried to do the same thing but did it with additional mechanics that were cumbersome, simple bean-counting and no more than a speed bump. No edition of D&D has provided for "long term" wounding. Some say that HP is a measure of long term wounding but it obviously can't be since at 5 HP you are as capable of continuing to fight as at 200HP. HP only measure how long you have before you are no longer able to fight. 4e provides a very fun way of playing a "heroic fantasy" game. The fact that you have to houserule long term injury is not any different that previous editions. In addition, it got rid of the bean-counting that unnecessarily created a burden for continuing the adventure. If you like the bean-counting and want to "simulate" long term injury then any of the houserules I detailed above serve that purpose. However, saying that the game does not provide enough or any mechanics to approximate the type of play experience you want is not entirely true. I'm not going to convince anyone with this. I'm just going to keep on playing and DMing and having a blast doing it. [/QUOTE]

Verification