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<blockquote data-quote="Intense_Interest" data-source="post: 4545615" data-attributes="member: 65904">You wandered into two strong opinion's I've had about the 4e Power System and Combat as a whole:1- What makes the ability to do something at-will &quot;not-magic&quot;?&nbsp; Is there a necessary intrinsic conception that Magic needs to be large, impressive, and non-utilitarian rather than be a flick-the-light-switch power?&nbsp; If so, shouldn't you also trash the idea of Encounter and Daily magic as well?&nbsp; Follow me: The magic that we know in our culture is only the impossible feats of action that are only accomplished in very precise conditions- I'm talking stage magic- rabbits out of hats, escape from water-cages, and the like.&nbsp; Fireballs and Magic Missiles are not Magic, they are ranged artillery with an esoteric ammo supply.&nbsp; The utilitarian, &quot;this is how it works and it always works like this&quot; form of Spells written in a PHB is specifically not &quot;magical&quot;- as in unknowable, non-scientific, fantastic.Therefore, the strongest, truest way to conceive Magic in a game system is to tie all systems to a slightly modified Ritual system- costly, time consuming, random and at the whims of a higher power (Gods, Demons, and the Rat-Bastard GM).&nbsp; For example, remove Magic Missile from at-will, as you say.&nbsp; Replace it with a low-cost ritual that allows you to shoot an amount of Energy bolts as a standard action equal to your roll.&nbsp; 2- Place-mat and Positioning that you demean is the primary method to create a true skill-testing game within combat.&nbsp; Without requiring the use of pattern-recognition and strategic planning, combat becomes a meta-game test of resource management and stat accumulation as you would see in a Final Fantasy game.Turn-based, non-skilled CRPGs are the closest approximation of the board-less combat that you are asking D&amp;D to return to: simplistic game-states of &quot;I hit you, you hit me back&quot; or &quot;Dragon hits fighter, cleric heals fighter, wizard casts spell, ranger shoots dragon&quot;.&nbsp; Without the tactical and strategic nature of the board-game to impact and essentially limit player's choices within certain bounds, the challenge and reward for combat becomes a meta-game system of Healing/Spellslots used vs. XP/Treasure gained.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Intense_Interest, post: 4545615, member: 65904"] You wandered into two strong opinion's I've had about the 4e Power System and Combat as a whole: 1- What makes the ability to do something at-will "not-magic"? Is there a necessary intrinsic conception that Magic needs to be large, impressive, and non-utilitarian rather than be a flick-the-light-switch power? If so, shouldn't you also trash the idea of Encounter and Daily magic as well? Follow me: The magic that we know in our culture is only the impossible feats of action that are only accomplished in very precise conditions- I'm talking stage magic- rabbits out of hats, escape from water-cages, and the like. Fireballs and Magic Missiles are not Magic, they are ranged artillery with an esoteric ammo supply. The utilitarian, "this is how it works and it always works like this" form of Spells written in a PHB is specifically not "magical"- as in unknowable, non-scientific, fantastic. Therefore, the strongest, truest way to conceive Magic in a game system is to tie all systems to a slightly modified Ritual system- costly, time consuming, random and at the whims of a higher power (Gods, Demons, and the Rat-Bastard GM). For example, remove Magic Missile from at-will, as you say. Replace it with a low-cost ritual that allows you to shoot an amount of Energy bolts as a standard action equal to your roll. 2- Place-mat and Positioning that you demean is the primary method to create a true skill-testing game within combat. Without requiring the use of pattern-recognition and strategic planning, combat becomes a meta-game test of resource management and stat accumulation as you would see in a Final Fantasy game. Turn-based, non-skilled CRPGs are the closest approximation of the board-less combat that you are asking D&D to return to: simplistic game-states of "I hit you, you hit me back" or "Dragon hits fighter, cleric heals fighter, wizard casts spell, ranger shoots dragon". Without the tactical and strategic nature of the board-game to impact and essentially limit player's choices within certain bounds, the challenge and reward for combat becomes a meta-game system of Healing/Spellslots used vs. XP/Treasure gained. [/QUOTE]

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