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<blockquote data-quote="lutecius" data-source="post: 4549029" data-attributes="member: 60332">First I am not sure that 4e’s power system, with all its marks and positioning is any less convoluted or tedious than 3e. And afaik it’s still based on difficulty checks, conditions and modifiers. At best, the fact that every class and many powers use the same base mechanics might simplify things a little (or make them more repetitive, you choose)Iron Heroes’ token system is convoluted.But I was advocating a power point system, not 3e. So the limitations are… well, power points.Same system for every class, easy to track, doesn’t require more conditions or modifiers than 4e, a lot easier to rationalize in game. Doesn’t sound convoluted to me.The issue is not simplicity (for players that is), it’s balance. It is more important that designers get each power’s level (and PP cost) right and anticipate possible abuses because the same powers can be used multiple times. So yes, that requires more playtesting and I’m sure some issues will arise after a while, like in any system, including 4e, and some powers will need some houseruling or errata-ing. Big whoop. At least neither playability nor immersion is sacrificed from the get-go. I certainly don’t buy that you have to drop the ball on either goal. An rpg should strive for both.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="lutecius, post: 4549029, member: 60332"] First I am not sure that 4e’s power system, with all its marks and positioning is any less convoluted or tedious than 3e. And afaik it’s still based on difficulty checks, conditions and modifiers. At best, the fact that every class and many powers use the same base mechanics might simplify things a little (or make them more repetitive, you choose) Iron Heroes’ token system [B]is[/B] convoluted. But I was advocating a power point system, not 3e. So the limitations are… well, power points. Same system for every class, easy to track, doesn’t require more conditions or modifiers than 4e, a lot easier to rationalize in game. Doesn’t sound convoluted to me. The issue is not simplicity (for players that is), it’s balance. It is more important that designers get each power’s level (and PP cost) right and anticipate possible abuses because the same powers can be used multiple times. So yes, that requires more playtesting and I’m sure some issues will arise after a while, like in any system, including 4e, and some powers will need some houseruling or errata-ing. Big whoop. At least neither playability nor immersion is sacrificed from the get-go. I certainly don’t buy that you have to drop the ball on either goal. An rpg should strive for both. [/QUOTE]

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