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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4340942" data-attributes="member: 2020">What was important to us back then, was - and I'm telling you what you already know, of course - is:&nbsp; Is the wizard 4th level or 5th level?&nbsp; (world of difference, obviously.)&nbsp; Is the wizard 6th level or 7th level?&nbsp; (massive world of difference.)&nbsp; Is the wizard 8th level or 9th level?&nbsp; (colossal world of difference.)&nbsp; Is the wizard 11th level or 12th level?&nbsp; (make or break!)&nbsp; (remembers that famous question:&nbsp; 'Can I kill a cow, for 1 experience point?&nbsp; Surely there must be a cow around to kill!&nbsp; No?&nbsp; How about a rat?&nbsp; Surely a rat is worth 1 experience point!')&nbsp; (remembers an even more famous one from Dragon:&nbsp; 'QUICK, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES.&nbsp; There's a 19th level fighter outside, who needs 1 experience point to reach 20th level!' )&nbsp; And heh, remember Chromatic Orb?&nbsp; At 9th level, it's basically Autokill (successful save means you're Slowed, and thus dead.)&nbsp; 12th level, and a successful save means paralysis (Autokill Supreme)&nbsp; So yeah, that 11th level wizard - she is going to kill that rat to get to 12th level!&nbsp; (I remember so many debates over that one ... : )&nbsp; )&nbsp; Man, you bring Chromatic Orb into 3E, take that feat from Kalamar that disallows a save, add 3.0 divine metamagic in, and you got - Presto - an Instant Automatic Death Machine Lady Wizard at about 5th level.&nbsp; Add in 18 dexterity, Gauntlets of Dexterity +6, Improved Initiative, Danger Sense (reroll init once, if you want), and that feat from the Options Book that granted another +2 to init, and the 3.0 Haste (+4 to init, I think?) and it's just marvelous (marvelous for the wizard, eat your hearts out for the poor beasties.)&nbsp; Mighty, mighty monster:&nbsp; I am ready to fight!!!&nbsp; Lady Mage:&nbsp; Sometime yesterday, I won initiative and killed you.&nbsp; &nbsp; Mighty, mighty monster:&nbsp; Huh?&nbsp; DM:&nbsp; Yep&nbsp; Now, THIS is what I mean when I say 'cheating'.&nbsp; Rig the system to YOUR needs, and kick monster butt.&nbsp; Any wizard worth her salt knows the mage game, and plays it to the zenith.&nbsp; Of course, I haven't gone into such niceties as the Witch, the Death Master, the Chronomancer, or all those nifty spells from Dragon.&nbsp; Want an example of a real 'broken' spell?&nbsp; Here's one:&nbsp; Prismatic Blade (from Dragon.)&nbsp; This spell creates a sword in the hands of the mage that has all the colors of the Prismatic Sphere, and may be used as a normal longsword (a multiclass fighter/wizard would, of course, get multiple, multiple attacks with it.)&nbsp; Anything hit by this blade (armor would be NO defense, so this would be a Touch Attack in 3E) suffers ALL the effects of a Prismatic Sphere:&nbsp; 20 + 40 + 80 hit points of damage + save versus death, petrification, insanity, and being worldwalked to a different plane of existence.&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, how many attacks could a 3.0 fighter of 17th level (assumes a gestalt fighter/mage 17th level, able to throw Prismatic Blade) get?&nbsp; 4?&nbsp; 5?&nbsp; 7?&nbsp; 8?&nbsp; LOL ...&nbsp; It gets better, far better, than this (I could describe the chronomantic Melee Manager, if you would like&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp; )&nbsp; All is fair in love, war, and wizardry!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4340942, member: 2020"] What was important to us back then, was - and I'm telling you what you already know, of course - is: Is the wizard 4th level or 5th level? (world of difference, obviously.) Is the wizard 6th level or 7th level? (massive world of difference.) Is the wizard 8th level or 9th level? (colossal world of difference.) Is the wizard 11th level or 12th level? (make or break!) (remembers that famous question: 'Can I kill a cow, for 1 experience point? Surely there must be a cow around to kill! No? How about a rat? Surely a rat is worth 1 experience point!') (remembers an even more famous one from Dragon: 'QUICK, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. There's a 19th level fighter outside, who needs 1 experience point to reach 20th level!' ) And heh, remember Chromatic Orb? At 9th level, it's basically Autokill (successful save means you're Slowed, and thus dead.) 12th level, and a successful save means paralysis (Autokill Supreme) So yeah, that 11th level wizard - she is going to kill that rat to get to 12th level! (I remember so many debates over that one ... : ) ) Man, you bring Chromatic Orb into 3E, take that feat from Kalamar that disallows a save, add 3.0 divine metamagic in, and you got - Presto - an Instant Automatic Death Machine Lady Wizard at about 5th level. Add in 18 dexterity, Gauntlets of Dexterity +6, Improved Initiative, Danger Sense (reroll init once, if you want), and that feat from the Options Book that granted another +2 to init, and the 3.0 Haste (+4 to init, I think?) and it's just marvelous (marvelous for the wizard, eat your hearts out for the poor beasties.) Mighty, mighty monster: I am ready to fight!!! Lady Mage: Sometime yesterday, I won initiative and killed you. Mighty, mighty monster: Huh? DM: Yep Now, THIS is what I mean when I say 'cheating'. Rig the system to YOUR needs, and kick monster butt. Any wizard worth her salt knows the mage game, and plays it to the zenith. Of course, I haven't gone into such niceties as the Witch, the Death Master, the Chronomancer, or all those nifty spells from Dragon. Want an example of a real 'broken' spell? Here's one: Prismatic Blade (from Dragon.) This spell creates a sword in the hands of the mage that has all the colors of the Prismatic Sphere, and may be used as a normal longsword (a multiclass fighter/wizard would, of course, get multiple, multiple attacks with it.) Anything hit by this blade (armor would be NO defense, so this would be a Touch Attack in 3E) suffers ALL the effects of a Prismatic Sphere: 20 + 40 + 80 hit points of damage + save versus death, petrification, insanity, and being worldwalked to a different plane of existence. Now, how many attacks could a 3.0 fighter of 17th level (assumes a gestalt fighter/mage 17th level, able to throw Prismatic Blade) get? 4? 5? 7? 8? LOL ... It gets better, far better, than this (I could describe the chronomantic Melee Manager, if you would like :D ) All is fair in love, war, and wizardry! [/QUOTE]

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