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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 4768259" data-attributes="member: 1861">I was actually having kind of an argument with a buddy about this topic a few days ago... and since this is one of my favorite setting beefs it does come up a lot in conversation.In general, I don't understand the concept of the magic shop because, let us be honest... someone is going to find a way to bump it off at some point in the future (read: within 12 hours of some mid-level rogue realizing that an adept with identify has decided to enter into the spell-selling game).  Between this and the constant stacking up of spells, along with the idea that every party needs a mage AND a cleric to survive... pah, just a lot of irritation.I can understand apothecaries who sell mundane healing in a setting, primitive surgeons, and yes the occasional heal-by-mystic-assistance.  Mostly the mindset of 'there needs to be a +4 dagger in every rogue's hand' comes from a development of mentality from we few, we proud, we first generation of CRPG players/players of early D&D.  That mix, combined with the fearsome number-pounded might of damage reductions of Y/+X or greater/immunities in the different versions caused a lot of issues.  Personally I don't see why a wizard or a cleric couldn't be the uberpowerful force of nature in a party... as long as they invest in every single minute detail of their craft, venture far and wee, and don't just get to open up a copy of the Magic Item Compendium or (insert other power-book here) and point to what they want.A thing I like about 4e (and there aren't a lot) are the separations of artifacts vs. 'magic items'.  Indeed, a mundanely crafted powerful item should be available in most mid-magic games.  Hell, they should be available in most low-magic games if their powers make sense.  Example: a mundane acidic dagger?  Not so much.  A quiver of arrows with small heads filled with said-same acid?  Makes sense, as each would be dipped/filled separately, and each 'shot' would let loose that specific bit of acidic goodness.Artifacts are where you get the cool items, and each should be unique.  Even in pretty high-magic settings a characters items shouldn't be 'wow... another +4 keen fiery dagger'... they should look, read, and act like an epic piece of machinery.I think the assumptions in general re: magic are so skewed by people that it causes a major rift.  There were a lot of great stop-gaps in 2e (rarity levels for spells, for example) which made for the ability to give epic power to a PC or NPC which had never been seen before, bend the rules a bit, and grant unique and varied items.  The problem of Monty Haul-ism has always existed, but the real issue doesn't come fully from players getting their sweet nothings from lenient DMs or 'power creep'.The current climate (and I speak mostly of 3e because my experience in 4e is essentially just reading materials and watching a campaign unfold) of constant one-upmanship is mostly perceived due to our state of constant net awareness.  Powerful builds existed, but they weren't seen as readily before the Internet.  However, I wouldn't trade away all the stupid Pun-Pun Master of Universe script-kiddy type of headaches I get as a DM for the amount of soft, fluffy, excellent ideas I pick up on a daily basis around here.  I would love to see some of the groups you guys play in, even if I had to sit through some of the travesties I have also seen here <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.Love it or hate it, magic items are part of D&D.  It's the way each gamer (player or DM) lets magic function which changes things.Slainte,-Loonook.PS: One question which has been bugging me of late:  How does Polymorph work in your world?  I mean, a scrawny 90 lb. weakling wizard shapeshifts into a red dragon without any aplomb or regard for the mass he has taken on?  Is the weight metaphysical, or should fatties have more opportunities in the altering arena?</blockquote>

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