Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 4351136" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>Sorry, here's a long one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're misunderstanding my assertion.</p><p></p><p>It is irrelevant in the matter of the <em>specific mechanic</em> that we're discussing- namely, once dailies.</p><p></p><p>Regardless of the 4Ed PC's level, a once daily exploit remains once daily- no additional uses of a particular daily power are ever gained by leveling.</p><p></p><p>In 3.X, most (but not all) once daily powers gain additional uses as the PC levels in a class that grants the power.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, we're only talking about # of uses a daily gets. Not richness of tactical options or anything else.</p><p></p><p>Who cares if the Barbarian is a one trick pony. He's doing the trick more than once per day.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At best you've explained why certain exploits are usable once per encounter, and then, only in the context of combatants of equal ability. I'm sure if you went to a dojo and watched the master spar with several different students on a given day, he could probably execute most of his tricks against any given opponent, save for his best students. Against his newest/worst students, there probably isn't a martial exploit he couldn't execute at will.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And 2 hours later, after a massage and a beer, he's jumped again...and still can't use his daily?</p><p></p><p>Man! That really IS draining.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How many times a day you get angry over your dead buddy depends upon how many people insult your dead buddy in 24 hours, your anger management issues, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And the next enemy who is just as deserving and provoking? He gets a pass, apparently.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Naga, please! A trained warrior fights disciplined <em>nearly every time he fights. </em> Check the MMA guys. Check Fight Science. Check out your local dojo or boxing gym.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure you can stare at whomever you want as many times as you want as intensely as you want for however long you want until the cops arrest you as a stalker.</p><p></p><p>Either that, or the Swiss Guards and the guys at Buckingham Palace are breaking the 4Ed rules...</p><p></p><p></p><p>In the RW, there were warriors whose entire job was to defend a particular person from harm with their shield and their bodies. I'm pretty sure they didn't just sit down after using the shield once and say "Dude, I'm tapped!"</p><p></p><p></p><p>That flies in the face of almost every battle involving archers and similar ranged combat specialists.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, Buster Douglas really was better than Mike Tyson?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /></p><p></p><p>Lets examine boxing, since its much simpler than most martial arts competitions.</p><p></p><p>In a heavyweight boxing match (well, one that goes the distance, anyway), there are hundreds of punches thrown by each fighter. You're talking about a small variety of blows (jabs, uppercuts, roundhouses, etc.) thrown left or right handed. It is rarely the single blow that wins, but a combo and/or attrition.</p><p></p><p>Even when watching more complex forms, its combos, not single maneuvers, that win. A fighter targets what he perceives as his foe's weakness, then goes after it. Sometimes that results in a KO or a serious injury, like a broken leg...but it wasn't one blow, it was the accumulation of blows.</p><p></p><p>Like chopping down a tree, the leg that buckles or breaks has been kicked by the same blow in the same location perhaps as many as a dozen times. The blow that finally brings the foe to his knees wasn't particularly strong- it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Nor was it more fatiguing to the deliverer- he's just tired from<em> everything</em> he did in the fight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, <strong>CORE</strong>, in almost every case, <em>you gained more uses of those dailies the more you advanced in a class. </em>And in the expansions, most of those dailies gained extra uses per day through feats.</p><p></p><p>To this point in 4Ed, once dailies remain once dailies <em>regardless of PC level.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Its hard to pull off 1/day against <em>a similarly skilled opponent.</em> Against a kid or a 55 year old couch potato, its an unstoppable<strong> at will ability</strong>.</p><p></p><p>But even so...</p><p></p><p>Consider the example put forth by Master Bruce Lee when he had his "coming out party" at a 1960s convention of martial arts masters (all black belts or equivalent) from around the world.</p><p></p><p>There is footage of him in educational sparring matches in which he is repeatedly striking this master in the head with the same move over and over again; of sweeping the same leg out from under another master, and so forth.</p><p></p><p>In the 1960s, Bruce demonstrations in several cities, including the Long Beach International Karate Championships. There, he challenged Vic Moore to stop his famous "unstoppable punch." When Moore was ready, nodding in affirmation, Lee glided towards him, throwing a straight punch directly at Moore's face, stopping before impact. Moore blocked zero of the 8 punches thrown.</p><p></p><p>In 1973, there is Bob Wall's account of Bruce Lee meeting the challenge of an extra (who happened to be a street tough) on the set of Enter the Dragon. Despite being bigger and stronger, he was easily beaten by a few sweeps and a multitude of strikes to the face.</p><p></p><p>Simply put, the once daily martial move doesn't exist in the RW. It is, at best, an illusion created by the way fights between evenly matched opponents <em>seem</em> to end.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 4351136, member: 19675"] Sorry, here's a long one. You're misunderstanding my assertion. It is irrelevant in the matter of the [I]specific mechanic[/I] that we're discussing- namely, once dailies. Regardless of the 4Ed PC's level, a once daily exploit remains once daily- no additional uses of a particular daily power are ever gained by leveling. In 3.X, most (but not all) once daily powers gain additional uses as the PC levels in a class that grants the power. Again, we're only talking about # of uses a daily gets. Not richness of tactical options or anything else. Who cares if the Barbarian is a one trick pony. He's doing the trick more than once per day. At best you've explained why certain exploits are usable once per encounter, and then, only in the context of combatants of equal ability. I'm sure if you went to a dojo and watched the master spar with several different students on a given day, he could probably execute most of his tricks against any given opponent, save for his best students. Against his newest/worst students, there probably isn't a martial exploit he couldn't execute at will. And 2 hours later, after a massage and a beer, he's jumped again...and still can't use his daily? Man! That really IS draining. How many times a day you get angry over your dead buddy depends upon how many people insult your dead buddy in 24 hours, your anger management issues, etc. And the next enemy who is just as deserving and provoking? He gets a pass, apparently. Naga, please! A trained warrior fights disciplined [I]nearly every time he fights. [/I] Check the MMA guys. Check Fight Science. Check out your local dojo or boxing gym. I'm pretty sure you can stare at whomever you want as many times as you want as intensely as you want for however long you want until the cops arrest you as a stalker. Either that, or the Swiss Guards and the guys at Buckingham Palace are breaking the 4Ed rules... In the RW, there were warriors whose entire job was to defend a particular person from harm with their shield and their bodies. I'm pretty sure they didn't just sit down after using the shield once and say "Dude, I'm tapped!" That flies in the face of almost every battle involving archers and similar ranged combat specialists. So, Buster Douglas really was better than Mike Tyson?:confused: Lets examine boxing, since its much simpler than most martial arts competitions. In a heavyweight boxing match (well, one that goes the distance, anyway), there are hundreds of punches thrown by each fighter. You're talking about a small variety of blows (jabs, uppercuts, roundhouses, etc.) thrown left or right handed. It is rarely the single blow that wins, but a combo and/or attrition. Even when watching more complex forms, its combos, not single maneuvers, that win. A fighter targets what he perceives as his foe's weakness, then goes after it. Sometimes that results in a KO or a serious injury, like a broken leg...but it wasn't one blow, it was the accumulation of blows. Like chopping down a tree, the leg that buckles or breaks has been kicked by the same blow in the same location perhaps as many as a dozen times. The blow that finally brings the foe to his knees wasn't particularly strong- it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Nor was it more fatiguing to the deliverer- he's just tired from[I] everything[/I] he did in the fight. Again, [B]CORE[/B], in almost every case, [I]you gained more uses of those dailies the more you advanced in a class. [/I]And in the expansions, most of those dailies gained extra uses per day through feats. To this point in 4Ed, once dailies remain once dailies [I]regardless of PC level.[/I] Its hard to pull off 1/day against [I]a similarly skilled opponent.[/I] Against a kid or a 55 year old couch potato, its an unstoppable[B] at will ability[/B]. But even so... Consider the example put forth by Master Bruce Lee when he had his "coming out party" at a 1960s convention of martial arts masters (all black belts or equivalent) from around the world. There is footage of him in educational sparring matches in which he is repeatedly striking this master in the head with the same move over and over again; of sweeping the same leg out from under another master, and so forth. In the 1960s, Bruce demonstrations in several cities, including the Long Beach International Karate Championships. There, he challenged Vic Moore to stop his famous "unstoppable punch." When Moore was ready, nodding in affirmation, Lee glided towards him, throwing a straight punch directly at Moore's face, stopping before impact. Moore blocked zero of the 8 punches thrown. In 1973, there is Bob Wall's account of Bruce Lee meeting the challenge of an extra (who happened to be a street tough) on the set of Enter the Dragon. Despite being bigger and stronger, he was easily beaten by a few sweeps and a multitude of strikes to the face. Simply put, the once daily martial move doesn't exist in the RW. It is, at best, an illusion created by the way fights between evenly matched opponents [I]seem[/I] to end. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Forked Thread: Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief
Top