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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4536194" data-attributes="member: 63272">Yes, that's why I addressed that in the first post.&nbsp; &quot;I called my PC who uses longsword and shortbow in 3e a rogue so he must be a rogue in 4e&quot; is largely missing the point.&nbsp; We're looking to see how a concept fits into the 4e system, not getting hung up on nomenclature.&nbsp; A lot of it could be handled by reflavoring powers.&nbsp; Cloud of Daggers could become skeletal arms reaching out of the ground or ghostly arms appearing throughout the space, chill strike could be changed to necrotic or cold+necrotic.&nbsp; Animate dead is not here yet, like conjuring, but we have the basics.&nbsp; There are rules on conjurations, so it would be easy to create an animate dead spell and maybe a summon undead spell.&nbsp; Follow the standard rules for creatures under your control, like with the bag of tricks or animal companion (minor actions to command creature to take actions).&nbsp; You are way too caught up in specifics.&nbsp; Things change from edition to edition.&nbsp; Some things work differently than they did before, some things are removed, some things are added.&nbsp; That's how editions are different, otherwise it would just be a reprinting.&nbsp; Damage does not actual harm, it represents the abstract ability to continue the fight.&nbsp; Subjecting foes to spells weakens their resolve and could eventually kill them.&nbsp; Doing things to people with magic has a harmful element to it.&nbsp; That's just the way it is.Boosts belong to other classes now.&nbsp; The wizard is no longer the swiss army PC, capable of emulating the roles and abilities of every other PC and often doing them better.&nbsp; That's why wizards were considered overpowered compared to most the other classes.&nbsp; They could out rogue the rogue, out play the bard, out fight the fighter, and still drop a sudden, widened, maximized fireball and tac nuke a village.&nbsp; Walls are still on the spell list and make fine barriers.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;4e is built differently than 3e.&nbsp; This isn't about concepts at all.&nbsp; All classes are designed so that they have a combat effective suite of powers, using those powers deal &quot;damage&quot;, they wear down your opponent.&nbsp; Utility spells and rituals contain much of the utility that was always there for casters.&nbsp; If you don't like this &quot;shift&quot; (wizards were always designed to lay down the hurt), then 4e isn't for you.&nbsp;Specific spells come and go.&nbsp; Entangle immobilizes, there are spells that do that, including Evard's Black Tentacles.&nbsp; Solid fog?&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; You have wall of fog, wall of ice could easily be reflavored to be a frosty, solid fog.&nbsp; Any effect that immobilizes or creates difficult terrain could be a version of solid fog.&nbsp;Don't get caught up in titles, that's a ranger.&nbsp; And rogues can already dual wield.&nbsp; Dual wielding has changed a bit in 4e.&nbsp; It's main benefit is the option to use either weapon to make an attack, allowing an effective combination of magic weapons to be utilized.&nbsp; A feat lets you use a bow, a friendly DM substitutes bow for crossbow in rogue ranged powers.&nbsp; That's a fair exchange for a feat.I don't think this one is too difficult at all.&nbsp; Use shifter (either one), add in the doppleganger racial power (compensate with a feat loss or something, perhaps, its not that powerful, so I don't think it'd even be necessary to compensate), use barbarian and multiclass with wizard or warlock.&nbsp; Make your rages equal halfwere shifts, feral changes in appearance, etc.&nbsp; Take a couple charm powers from your wizard or lock side.&nbsp; Use the occasional unarmed strike as a claw attack, especially while &quot;raging&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4536194, member: 63272"] Yes, that's why I addressed that in the first post. "I called my PC who uses longsword and shortbow in 3e a rogue so he must be a rogue in 4e" is largely missing the point. We're looking to see how a concept fits into the 4e system, not getting hung up on nomenclature. A lot of it could be handled by reflavoring powers. Cloud of Daggers could become skeletal arms reaching out of the ground or ghostly arms appearing throughout the space, chill strike could be changed to necrotic or cold+necrotic. Animate dead is not here yet, like conjuring, but we have the basics. There are rules on conjurations, so it would be easy to create an animate dead spell and maybe a summon undead spell. Follow the standard rules for creatures under your control, like with the bag of tricks or animal companion (minor actions to command creature to take actions). You are way too caught up in specifics. Things change from edition to edition. Some things work differently than they did before, some things are removed, some things are added. That's how editions are different, otherwise it would just be a reprinting. Damage does not actual harm, it represents the abstract ability to continue the fight. Subjecting foes to spells weakens their resolve and could eventually kill them. Doing things to people with magic has a harmful element to it. That's just the way it is. Boosts belong to other classes now. The wizard is no longer the swiss army PC, capable of emulating the roles and abilities of every other PC and often doing them better. That's why wizards were considered overpowered compared to most the other classes. They could out rogue the rogue, out play the bard, out fight the fighter, and still drop a sudden, widened, maximized fireball and tac nuke a village. Walls are still on the spell list and make fine barriers. 4e is built differently than 3e. This isn't about concepts at all. All classes are designed so that they have a combat effective suite of powers, using those powers deal "damage", they wear down your opponent. Utility spells and rituals contain much of the utility that was always there for casters. If you don't like this "shift" (wizards were always designed to lay down the hurt), then 4e isn't for you. Specific spells come and go. Entangle immobilizes, there are spells that do that, including Evard's Black Tentacles. Solid fog? Really? You have wall of fog, wall of ice could easily be reflavored to be a frosty, solid fog. Any effect that immobilizes or creates difficult terrain could be a version of solid fog. Don't get caught up in titles, that's a ranger. And rogues can already dual wield. Dual wielding has changed a bit in 4e. It's main benefit is the option to use either weapon to make an attack, allowing an effective combination of magic weapons to be utilized. A feat lets you use a bow, a friendly DM substitutes bow for crossbow in rogue ranged powers. That's a fair exchange for a feat. I don't think this one is too difficult at all. Use shifter (either one), add in the doppleganger racial power (compensate with a feat loss or something, perhaps, its not that powerful, so I don't think it'd even be necessary to compensate), use barbarian and multiclass with wizard or warlock. Make your rages equal halfwere shifts, feral changes in appearance, etc. Take a couple charm powers from your wizard or lock side. Use the occasional unarmed strike as a claw attack, especially while "raging". [/QUOTE]

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