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<blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4536299" data-attributes="member: 63763">And if you want to have say ... a fighter that has sneak attack and the ability to dual wield weapons that aren't off handed?&nbsp;A fighter, specifically a 4e fighter, is someone that is not well suited to range attacks.&nbsp;In 3e, a fighter, thanks to his awesome feat selection was able to be better at two weapon fighting than the ranger and better at archery than the ranger. That meant the ranger was a poor subsitute for a fighter, that had limited spellcasting, an animal companion that, because of it's level adjustment wasn't very helpful in a fight, and they had a class ability that rewarded them if the DM used their favored enemy frequently enough.&nbsp;A ranger is able to do some things that a figher does... heck it gets ranged attacks to disrupt attacks against their allies and apply penalties to those attacks ... just like a fighter does in melee range. Add a bard to the group and you can have him give you the ability to mark enemies ... take certain feats and you can increase your HP/surges/etc.&nbsp;As for skill selection ... first of all you get more options for skills as a ranger, secondly you can use feats to make up for anything else. If having a skill trained that you don't want to have trained is such a hindrance to your character, you can always play as if you don't have it.&nbsp;Intimidate and Streetwise. That is what you don't get to start with as a ranger instead of being a fighter. You can easily pick those up via feats, or with a background, being eladrin, etc...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WalterKovacs, post: 4536299, member: 63763"] And if you want to have say ... a fighter that has sneak attack and the ability to dual wield weapons that aren't off handed? A fighter, specifically a 4e fighter, is someone that is not well suited to range attacks. In 3e, a fighter, thanks to his awesome feat selection was able to be better at two weapon fighting than the ranger and better at archery than the ranger. That meant the ranger was a poor subsitute for a fighter, that had limited spellcasting, an animal companion that, because of it's level adjustment wasn't very helpful in a fight, and they had a class ability that rewarded them if the DM used their favored enemy frequently enough. A ranger is able to do some things that a figher does... heck it gets ranged attacks to disrupt attacks against their allies and apply penalties to those attacks ... just like a fighter does in melee range. Add a bard to the group and you can have him give you the ability to mark enemies ... take certain feats and you can increase your HP/surges/etc. As for skill selection ... first of all you get more options for skills as a ranger, secondly you can use feats to make up for anything else. If having a skill trained that you don't want to have trained is such a hindrance to your character, you can always play as if you don't have it. Intimidate and Streetwise. That is what you don't get to start with as a ranger instead of being a fighter. You can easily pick those up via feats, or with a background, being eladrin, etc... [/QUOTE]

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