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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4536845" data-attributes="member: 63272">No, it's you who missed the point.&nbsp; I addressed all that in the OP.&nbsp; RAW doesn't matter.&nbsp; This isn't a thread for RAW.&nbsp; The question was not the one you suggest.&nbsp; It was &quot;how can we do in 4th some things we did in previous editions that are not available in core 4e.&nbsp; We don't need a whole thread to determine if druids are or are not available in 4e.&nbsp; You just need to look at the book.&nbsp; If the question was &quot;what things were in previous editions cores that aren't in 4e&quot;, this would be a pretty easy thread.&nbsp; But again, I went over all that in the first post. I'm not trying to tell you what you can or can't post or think or anything, but you can't tell me I missed the point of my own thread.&nbsp; That's disingenuous. Now, while I know you are just trying to list classes that don't exist yet in 4e, I'll answer these anyway, because I find it interesting.&nbsp; One of the first few builds I did in 4e was an unarmed fighter, as one of my players was considering a concept around that.Of course, the monk was hardly always core.&nbsp; But anyway, it's an easy one.Pick a melee class whose powers suit your concept beyond -unarmed fighter-.&nbsp; Is he a soldier, wrestler, monk, etc.&nbsp; Then take a feat to gain proficiency in unarmed strikes.&nbsp; The only tweaking required would be to assign a prof. bonus to unarmed strikes.&nbsp; The wording of the Weapon Proficiency feat does not exclude &quot;improvised&quot; weapons.&nbsp; Fighter, rogue and ranger would all work well as unarmed fighters.&nbsp; Maybe make a 2nd feat to increase unarmed damage to a d6.&nbsp; After that, its all description, the melee powers work fine.The one I made was a favorite NPC from 3e, a halfling wrestler with the grappler prestige class (forget the name).&nbsp; I used fighter, high str, he can grab a lot to restrain.What's deceptive is attributing that statement to me.It works pretty well in 3rd and 4th.&nbsp; That was another character I converted.&nbsp; I had a bugbear spearfighter I'd made for an ancient greece flavored game I'd played in who was pretty effective.&nbsp; I built him in 3e with barbarian to represent the rawness of the bugbear and his coming up in the gladiator pits, but his rage was more cold brutality, then some fighter levels for feats to represent his learning and gaining technique and discipline.&nbsp; He was fast, agile, lightly armored, spring attack was an obvious feat choice.&nbsp; In 4e, I made him a warlord as it fit the concept well, he was very intelligent, tactically minded, used to fighting with allies, etc.&nbsp; It was a pretty straight conversion and mechanically sound.&nbsp; Rogue would probably work well, too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4536845, member: 63272"] No, it's you who missed the point. I addressed all that in the OP. RAW doesn't matter. This isn't a thread for RAW. The question was not the one you suggest. It was "how can we do in 4th some things we did in previous editions that are not available in core 4e. We don't need a whole thread to determine if druids are or are not available in 4e. You just need to look at the book. If the question was "what things were in previous editions cores that aren't in 4e", this would be a pretty easy thread. But again, I went over all that in the first post. I'm not trying to tell you what you can or can't post or think or anything, but you can't tell me I missed the point of my own thread. That's disingenuous. Now, while I know you are just trying to list classes that don't exist yet in 4e, I'll answer these anyway, because I find it interesting. One of the first few builds I did in 4e was an unarmed fighter, as one of my players was considering a concept around that. Of course, the monk was hardly always core. But anyway, it's an easy one. Pick a melee class whose powers suit your concept beyond -unarmed fighter-. Is he a soldier, wrestler, monk, etc. Then take a feat to gain proficiency in unarmed strikes. The only tweaking required would be to assign a prof. bonus to unarmed strikes. The wording of the Weapon Proficiency feat does not exclude "improvised" weapons. Fighter, rogue and ranger would all work well as unarmed fighters. Maybe make a 2nd feat to increase unarmed damage to a d6. After that, its all description, the melee powers work fine. The one I made was a favorite NPC from 3e, a halfling wrestler with the grappler prestige class (forget the name). I used fighter, high str, he can grab a lot to restrain. What's deceptive is attributing that statement to me. It works pretty well in 3rd and 4th. That was another character I converted. I had a bugbear spearfighter I'd made for an ancient greece flavored game I'd played in who was pretty effective. I built him in 3e with barbarian to represent the rawness of the bugbear and his coming up in the gladiator pits, but his rage was more cold brutality, then some fighter levels for feats to represent his learning and gaining technique and discipline. He was fast, agile, lightly armored, spring attack was an obvious feat choice. In 4e, I made him a warlord as it fit the concept well, he was very intelligent, tactically minded, used to fighting with allies, etc. It was a pretty straight conversion and mechanically sound. Rogue would probably work well, too. [/QUOTE]

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