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Forked Thread: Preview: The Shaman, the first broken class.
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<blockquote data-quote="Runestar" data-source="post: 4651056" data-attributes="member: 72317"><p>Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are incorrect. For example, we do have an interesting case of the beastmaster apparently being unkillable at epic lvs so long as he parks his animal companion somewhere safely away. I am not sure that is what the designers intended, but it is possible nonetheless.</p><p></p><p>When 4e was first previewed, I recall there being a lot of hoohaa over the rings being paragon only. That got scrapped in the end, so apparently, the people making the most noise over it said something right (though it is possible that the designers also made a decision independent of the gleemax boards). Would you rather everyone kept quiet and then make a fuss only when the PHB had been released, and the rule irrevocable?</p><p></p><p>I find it funny that the best defense one can muster is "You know nuts. But I know just as little as you apparently, so I will just tell you to shut up instead of trying to refute your arguments directly". Isn't the whole point of these previews to generate debate and discussions? In the meantime, the designers can collect feedback, identify potential issues with said class' design and nip them in the bud before the supplement gets released. </p><p></p><p>Better this than everyone adopting a "wait and see" attitude, IMO. </p><p></p><p>That has its roots back in 3e. But they have been right more often than not. The trend has been that we, the players, tend to be as good as, if not better than the designers at critiquing the material and spotting problematic aspects. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Yes, we have had our mystic theurge moments, but overall, the track record has been fairly accurate, IIRC. </p><p></p><p>The designers are the ones who supposedly know the game best, but they too are human. Look at the whole slew of mistakes in 4e, the list of errata so far, and the backlog of errors/imbalanced waiting to be corrected. Apparently, yes, they did overlook the blade cascade combo despite having worked on it for years, while presumably "ignorant" players discovered it within days of 4e's release.</p><p></p><p>It is broken in the sense that it appears to be a little weaker than the other leaders, not that it breaks the game.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Runestar, post: 4651056, member: 72317"] Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are incorrect. For example, we do have an interesting case of the beastmaster apparently being unkillable at epic lvs so long as he parks his animal companion somewhere safely away. I am not sure that is what the designers intended, but it is possible nonetheless. When 4e was first previewed, I recall there being a lot of hoohaa over the rings being paragon only. That got scrapped in the end, so apparently, the people making the most noise over it said something right (though it is possible that the designers also made a decision independent of the gleemax boards). Would you rather everyone kept quiet and then make a fuss only when the PHB had been released, and the rule irrevocable? I find it funny that the best defense one can muster is "You know nuts. But I know just as little as you apparently, so I will just tell you to shut up instead of trying to refute your arguments directly". Isn't the whole point of these previews to generate debate and discussions? In the meantime, the designers can collect feedback, identify potential issues with said class' design and nip them in the bud before the supplement gets released. Better this than everyone adopting a "wait and see" attitude, IMO. That has its roots back in 3e. But they have been right more often than not. The trend has been that we, the players, tend to be as good as, if not better than the designers at critiquing the material and spotting problematic aspects. :) Yes, we have had our mystic theurge moments, but overall, the track record has been fairly accurate, IIRC. The designers are the ones who supposedly know the game best, but they too are human. Look at the whole slew of mistakes in 4e, the list of errata so far, and the backlog of errors/imbalanced waiting to be corrected. Apparently, yes, they did overlook the blade cascade combo despite having worked on it for years, while presumably "ignorant" players discovered it within days of 4e's release. It is broken in the sense that it appears to be a little weaker than the other leaders, not that it breaks the game.:) [/QUOTE]
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