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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goumindong" data-source="post: 4376494" data-attributes="member: 70874">I just went past the most common "problems"For the moment, i am just going to address this by saying that you need to stop being disingenuous. Which is to say, it would be appreciated if you stopped lying indirectly.I say this because Avenging Flame does indeed have a slight control feature. And so that makes it a "controlling power". But its also str vs AC which means MAD for the Cleric. But its also a melee attack which means the Wizard has 9 more squares of range.But its also a daily power while the wizard power you are comparing it to is an encounter power. That means that the wizard power, being able to be used roughly 4 times per day, stops 4 times as many actions from occurring. As well, Avenging Flame can prevent NO actions at all if the enemy decides to eat the 5 ongoing damage(which it might as well do).These powers are not in any way comparable. One is a debuff/heal, and the other is damage. Freezing Cloud(the absolute worst of the wizard 1 dailies) is area denial and damage. Beacon of Hope is a leading power. Debuffs and Buffs are leading powers. Area and Action denial are controlling powers. There is a difference.Already explained how AoE move is better than single target move, that it provokes is nice, but you do not get to place the enemy, and you do not get to place friendliesIs a class feature. Would you like me to explain what implement masteries do to control powers and factor that into each and every one as i have not been doing? Oh yea, and its undead only...1d8+wis vs either Ranged 20 Enemy Only AoE at 2d8+int and 1d8+int[Force Orb] or 2d6+int blast 5. The +2 to attack is a leading power not a controlling power. Such, the power is explicitly worse than the wizard damage options.So your argument is that Clerics get weaker spells now?Note: The guardian has half the speed, half the range, and the sphere can make attacks at 2d6+int as well as its automatic damage.Sleep is an Area Burst 2 within range 20.Good lord no. While its true that none of the Cleric spells should be better control than the best control spells the wizard has, NONE ARE.Classes need a range of options that overlap so that they are not homogeneous pieces of <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. Sometimes Wizards will want to pick up damage spells. Sometimes area denial spells. Sometimes forced movement. Sometimes action denial. All of these attributes are better in different situations. So while a cleric power might be better than a wizard spell in some, so long as there is a better wizard controlling power its fine.You're complaining that Flame Strike(that is the lvl 19 one right?) does more AoE than Disintegrate. Whop-do-do, because its not a better control power than Evard's, and Its the "i could use some hefty single target damage" option rather than the "i need area denial" action.</blockquote>

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