Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4376571" data-attributes="member: 2011">If you continue with these types of statements, I will ask the moderators to step in.I was trying to compare Encounter with Encounter and Daily with Daily and made a mistake. Sue me.Debuff is control. It limits the enemy in some fashion. The designers even claim that damage is control.Yup. But, you do get to target someone who will provoke if they move. And, you do get that target quasi-out of combat for a round. That is just as much control as Slow.And, tell that to the Blood Wizard that takes two feats, just to get Cause Fear. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />Who's "lying" now?How are any of the 17th level Wizard Encounter powers better control than Enthrall (which btw goes against Will saves)?Sure, Crushing Titan's Fist has better range. Rarely a factor. Sure Crushing Titan's Fist can affect the area, but who cares? It tends to only be used against targets away from the party because it cannot segregate enemies from allies. If used close to the party, it can hinder party movement as much as it can enemy movement. It has one use: damage some targets far away and hinder them from getting close to the party for a round. Enthrall has nearly this much utility for that purpose, plus has the utility to immobilize a bunch of creatures within melee range.Compare Thunderlance to Thunderous Word. Sure, Thunderlance can be acquired 4 levels earlier, but that is its main claim to fame. At higher levels where PCs can have most any Encounter power that they want, Thunderous Word is preferable to Thunderlance.13 Encounter 4D6 push creatures 4 in 5 Blast vs.17 Encounter 3D6 push enemies 3+Cha in 5 Blast and allows allies to shift 1The extra D6 damage of Thunderlance is white noise compared to the control utility gains that Thunderous Word has (can be used anywhere, extra push and party shifting).Sure, it's a higher level power. But in 4E, that just means that Clerics have to wait a bit to get it. With regard to Push Control, the Cleric power is better.In the area of Push Control, Wizards have Thunderwave, Spectral Ram, and Thunderlance. Clerics have Turn Undead, Split the Sky, Divine Power, and Thunderous Word.Wizards are the better Push Controllers, no doubt about it. But, Clerics have the best Push Control Power.My claim is and has been that Clerics sometimes get the best Control Power for a given control type. Sure, they might have to wait to get it, but they still get it.The Wizard has no Encounter Push Control power that compares to Thunderous Word.NONE.I never mentioned Flame Strike or Disintegrate. What are you talking about?</blockquote>

Verification