Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goumindong" data-source="post: 4377442" data-attributes="member: 70874">Man what? You just said you weren't putting points into Con. It doesn't get better if you don't put points into it. What are you putting the points into, strength and charisma? Yea, putting points into anything other than your secondary stat is foolish. Each stat up, you get two to spend. Put them into the same two every single time.Semantics, Shemantics. Buffs, and Debuffs are part of Support. That is what leaders do. Clerics are leaders, so i called it by the role that does it best.Thunderwave has a reach of 6 squares, Thunderlance a reach of 7(if you are spending two feats, might as well make them enhance the majority of your repertoire). Bigbys indeed does not push. But it does move them. Which cues the blood mage synergy.Confusion does not occur in the next round, it occurs on the enemies next turn. That may or may not be the next round.1: To start with, you are interpreting blood pulse incorrectly, you do not get 2d10 damage for each square it leaves, you get 1d6 and then 2d10 on top of all the damage you do.2: You do not necessarily get 6 squares of movement out of the target. This is because they may be obstacles in the way they cannot pass. Obstacles that can be pushed over. Movement hinges on having a clear path to run and does not ignore any kind of difficult terrain. You cannot force an enemy over a ledge as you can with a push. 3. Its a wisdom attack with a charisma rider. That means it works for only one type of wizard(an orb wizard, I.E. someone starting with high wisdom and enhancing it each level) who will be getting better mileage out of thunderwave(an at will) anyway, being able to do that same trick, except on multiple targets for roughly the same movement. Except that with thunderwave he gets damage on his AoE, can position friendlies(if they are willing to take the pulse damage which they probably won't be, but if its necessary you can move them out of the way in order to create a path that the enemy can be pushed through, anyway better to not bolster the pulse, then damage is very low on small pushes), ignores difficult terrain, and can push enemies into things like pits.Wizards get religion as a class skill, and its one of their better ones.No, doing it without an attack roll against multiple enemies to a level equal to your intelligence modifier(Typically more than wis or enemies speed + Cha) takes 11 more levels. Doing it with an attack roll takes thunderwave.O.K. So Enthrall doesn't prevent ranged attacks(they just coordinate on your friends), and doesn't prevent melee enemies from getting into melee if you miss. So it really doesn't do anything.Here is a tip. If you keep the enemies melee from getting into melee it means your strikers/defenders get to gang up on their artillery, the things that are weak and squishy and do lots of damage while the enemy melee ties up your melee.See, you don't actually care if your guys can't get to their melee, because their melee isn't doing anything valuable. What you do care about is that their melee isn't doing anything valuable while your melee is doing something valuable(killing their artillery/skirmishers)Immobilized flying foes fall to the ground(usually). So the powers are in the same region when dealing with flying foes. Ranged foes still attack, hit melee foes fall, not hit ones can move and attack. I don't see how this makes enthrall better in anyway.It does not slide allies. It lets allies shift 1. A push 4 can be much more beneficial than a shift 1. Neither provoke, but the push 4 allows for further movement as well as movement through allies. Which is impossible on a shift because they can't end where an ally is.Validity and Cogency have nothing to do with "completeness". How about you explain why its wrong instead of fallaciously calling logical fallacies(note: Not just calling a logical fallacy, but also fallaciously attributing the truth value of the conclusion to the validity of the argument)I am sorry, why are you comparing Ice Tomb to Enthrall? Crushing Titans Fist is the Enthrall equivalent. Didn't we already go over this?Now, its important to note here, that "different" does not mean "worse" or "better". What do you do if a brute and skirmisher have gotten cozy with your striker? Do you immobilize them and make them not attack the leader? Well, you sure did a whole lot! And by a whole lot i mean "bupkis".You see, sometimes, different powers are needed. And, as you advance in levels with your group, you will grow to know what type of powers you need more of and which type you need less of. I am sorry, what version of the PHB are you reading where Enthrall has a "miss" and/or "effect" entry? If enemies are next to your friends. Enthrall does nothing, nada, zilch, zippo, useless. Just as Crushing Titan's Fist does the same. If enemies are next to your friends then you need something that prevents them from acting and not just moving. Because at that point they don't care about moving they care about beating the living tar out of your friends. Back to your old games again. It was me who brought up the fact that Crushing Titan's Fist actually does something if you miss the attack roll.Look, i don't think you understand what a controller does and what control powers do. They are not there because status effects look pretty and AoE damage is like totally cool. They are there to perform specific actions for the party.1. They are there to kill minions fast. This means volume of AoE.(I.E. lots of AoE encounter and at-wills)2. They are there to separate the part of the enemy force dedicated to keeping it and others alive(by either interposition, or by healing) away from the other part of the enemy force dedicate to killing you.Lets do a little exercise. Lets look at the DPR of an enemy force when you do not control versus when you do control.Now, soldiers and brutes are running about twice as many hit points as skirmishers and artillery and Skirmishers and Artillery are doing about 50% more DPR. Now, lets say you do 1 unit hit points of DPR/Round.When the Soldiers and Brutes are not controlled. Your attack order will beSoldier/bruteSoldier/bruteSoldier/bruteArtilleryArtilleryTotal incoming damage will be(1.5x13)+5+3+1= 28.5 (plus 4.5 if you lose init)Now lets assume you can get those brutes out of the fight long enough to get your damage to their damage. Now your attack order looks like thisArtillery ArtillerySoldier/bruteSoldier/bruteSoldier/bruteAnd incoming damage will be 1.5+3+5+7 =16.5 (+4.5 if you lose init)If you're not allowing your damage to get to their damage unmolested(or unmolested enough to get there) you aren't controlling.Crushing Titan's Fist? Loads better control than Enthrall. It prevents movement on a miss, which means it allows your friends to not be engaged by those enemies.Ice Tomb? Loads better control than Enthrall. It either directly takes out damage form the fight that is not being engaged(I.E. one of the arties that isn't being attacked), or allows your friends to get around a brute/soldier that has closed and is now disrupting your damage from making it to the strikers.Something else to note: Readied actions on the part of your friends get around that damage restriction, since they can ready an action for when they come out of the tomb if they really want to do damage. And you don't even lose and significant init since you reset to "just before" the action that trigged it. Ironically you could even use this trick to jump init if the creature and wizard were acting on the same init.</blockquote>

Verification