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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4470025" data-attributes="member: 18280">I remember when we were discussing &quot;challenging fights&quot; after the announcement of 4e.&nbsp; I kept insisting that &quot;meaningful/challenging&quot; would quickly come to mean &quot;has a real chance to kill you&quot; in the 4e paradigm.&nbsp; Others kept claiming otherwise.&nbsp; I guess those pigeons have to come to roost.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />What is meaningful/challenging is based upon the &quot;win conditions&quot; of the game.&nbsp; If, in 4e (or any e), every fight had a real chance to give you a long-term -2 to hit, whether you won or not, then even a fight that couldn't kill you could be challenging.&nbsp; Assuming, of course, that the chance was based on something that the characters could influence.Is that OGC?&nbsp; If not, I can't use it.My mechanic is based on the following ideas:(1)&nbsp; It is desireable to partially decouple encounter hit points from total hit points.(2)&nbsp; It is desireable to have a system that doesn't encounter Schrödinger's Wounding; at the time a hit is taken, it should be possible to determine what is &quot;real&quot; damage and what can be &quot;shaken off&quot;.(3)&nbsp; Characters shouldn't always find it possible/desireable to &quot;shake it off&quot;.&nbsp; Under time constraints, for example, or in an area of hostile patrols, the PCs might well have to soldier on.&nbsp; The mechanic should show how this compounds the physical problems the PCs face.&nbsp; In this case, because they can only shake off so much damage, the more fights they get into before they rest, the more they deteriorate.Ex.&nbsp; Level 2 fighter can shake off 10 hp damage.&nbsp; Let's be generous and give him 28 hp.With rest:Fight One:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 3 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 0Fight Two:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 8 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 0Fight Three:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 6 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 0Fight Four:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 12 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 2Without rest:Fight One:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 3 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 3Fight Two:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 8 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 11Fight Three:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 6 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 17Fight Four:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 12 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 39&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!&nbsp; &nbsp; :eek:"&nbsp; data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />Sporadic rest:Fight One:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 3 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 3Fight Two:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 8 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 11Shakes it Off:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 1Fight Three:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 6 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 7Fight Four:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Takes 12 hp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 19Shakes it Off:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Total Damage:&nbsp; 9As I get close to publication/distribution (for free, all or nearly all OGC, should be easy to convert other materials to), I'll post more on that!RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4470025, member: 18280"] I remember when we were discussing "challenging fights" after the announcement of 4e. I kept insisting that "meaningful/challenging" would quickly come to mean "has a real chance to kill you" in the 4e paradigm. Others kept claiming otherwise. I guess those pigeons have to come to roost. ;) What is meaningful/challenging is based upon the "win conditions" of the game. If, in 4e (or any e), every fight had a real chance to give you a long-term -2 to hit, whether you won or not, then even a fight that couldn't kill you could be challenging. Assuming, of course, that the chance was based on something that the characters could influence. Is that OGC? If not, I can't use it. My mechanic is based on the following ideas: (1) It is desireable to partially decouple encounter hit points from total hit points. (2) It is desireable to have a system that doesn't encounter Schrödinger's Wounding; at the time a hit is taken, it should be possible to determine what is "real" damage and what can be "shaken off". (3) Characters shouldn't always find it possible/desireable to "shake it off". Under time constraints, for example, or in an area of hostile patrols, the PCs might well have to soldier on. The mechanic should show how this compounds the physical problems the PCs face. In this case, because they can only shake off so much damage, the more fights they get into before they rest, the more they deteriorate. Ex. Level 2 fighter can shake off 10 hp damage. Let's be generous and give him 28 hp. With rest: Fight One: Takes 3 hp Total Damage: 0 Fight Two: Takes 8 hp Total Damage: 0 Fight Three: Takes 6 hp Total Damage: 0 Fight Four: Takes 12 hp Total Damage: 2 Without rest: Fight One: Takes 3 hp Total Damage: 3 Fight Two: Takes 8 hp Total Damage: 11 Fight Three: Takes 6 hp Total Damage: 17 Fight Four: Takes 12 hp Total Damage: 39 :eek: Sporadic rest: Fight One: Takes 3 hp Total Damage: 3 Fight Two: Takes 8 hp Total Damage: 11 Shakes it Off: Total Damage: 1 Fight Three: Takes 6 hp Total Damage: 7 Fight Four: Takes 12 hp Total Damage: 19 Shakes it Off: Total Damage: 9 As I get close to publication/distribution (for free, all or nearly all OGC, should be easy to convert other materials to), I'll post more on that! RC [/QUOTE]

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