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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aboyd" data-source="post: 4856018" data-attributes="member: 44797">OK, the 6 story example.  City blocks range from about 250' to 900' depending upon the city.  I used 400 as a typical number.  At 400, you are at -40 to Spot.  In other words, your DC to view something 400' away is 40.  A commoner with no (or few) points in Spot will not see that something even if they take 20.  So I thought, let's see if making the object to spot really huge helps.  So a colossal creature is about 65' tall and provides a +16 to the Spot check (cause he's just so big and obvious).  That means a commoner would roll a 20, get +16 to Spot this gigantic thing, have a total of 36, and it still wouldn't be enough to Spot.  A 65 foot tall monster 400 feet away -- can't see it, even with perfect rolls.  Even with a few levels, most classes probably still wouldn't be able to see it.This makes no sense to me.</blockquote>