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Forked Thread: The Great Wheel
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4552583" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>The problem with planes being places you don't want to go isn't a Great Wheel problem. The Great Wheel is a model of how the planes link up, derived mostly from alignments and a division between elemental energies and belief (gods and philosophies). </p><p></p><p>The problem with planes being places you don't want to go was also relatively wonderfully addressed in most of 2e with the Planescape setting, and a lot of 3e with the fantastic 3e Manual of the Planes (in addition to the more narrow focus each of the Fiendish Compendiums gave).</p><p></p><p>However, a problem that 2e did have, that 3e had to varying degrees, was sometimes the hostility of the planes was such that they required a high-level party and high-level magic to get through unscathed. A DM basically had to give the party the magical ability to go on these quests in some cases.</p><p></p><p>4e's "survivable" planes mostly address this by having the planes be largely survivable by mortals right at the start, and directly assuming that high level characters will make use of them without world-changing magical powers. </p><p></p><p>And I'll agree with you, that is a pretty awesome thing to gain.</p><p></p><p>But that's not a problem with the Great Wheel.</p><p></p><p>That's a problem with how some specific planes were implemented and described. And it was solved, long ago, in the days of 2e, solved again in 3e, and solved from the beginning in 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4552583, member: 2067"] The problem with planes being places you don't want to go isn't a Great Wheel problem. The Great Wheel is a model of how the planes link up, derived mostly from alignments and a division between elemental energies and belief (gods and philosophies). The problem with planes being places you don't want to go was also relatively wonderfully addressed in most of 2e with the Planescape setting, and a lot of 3e with the fantastic 3e Manual of the Planes (in addition to the more narrow focus each of the Fiendish Compendiums gave). However, a problem that 2e did have, that 3e had to varying degrees, was sometimes the hostility of the planes was such that they required a high-level party and high-level magic to get through unscathed. A DM basically had to give the party the magical ability to go on these quests in some cases. 4e's "survivable" planes mostly address this by having the planes be largely survivable by mortals right at the start, and directly assuming that high level characters will make use of them without world-changing magical powers. And I'll agree with you, that is a pretty awesome thing to gain. But that's not a problem with the Great Wheel. That's a problem with how some specific planes were implemented and described. And it was solved, long ago, in the days of 2e, solved again in 3e, and solved from the beginning in 4e. [/QUOTE]
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