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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheAuldGrump" data-source="post: 5593768" data-attributes="member: 6957">Would it surprise you to hear that I have? And that I have heard 13 and 14 year olds complaining as well?To take any surprise away - one group are all in my teens 'n' tweens Pathfinder game - and for the most part their parents are in my grown-up games, either Pathfinder or Spycraft. They had played the game for a while, and had parents who had played similar games for years.And the person they were talking to was a younger brother who was a loud mouthed 4e fan, and who was quoting WotC ad speak. (All about the combat, that boy. All about the combat.)They got quite heated about it*. At least in part because he could not seem to grasp that they enjoyed 3.X/3.P in spite of the fact that he had never read or played it. He based his premise entirely on WotC's claims, rather than informing his own voice. In this case sibling rivalry was a stronger component, I think, than actual enjoyment  on one side, and defensive behavior on the other.While I happen to agree that Pathfinder is a better game in many ways, the actual battle was over things aside from the topic voiced. The younger brother wanted to run a game, and they did not want to play that game. I do not know if they would have played the game if he had decided to run Pathfinder, but I have my doubts.On the flip side - the young players all seem happy with Pathfinder, while the 4e fan was willing to play Pathfinder because it wasn't 3.X. (If I could roll my eyes here, trust me, I would be doing so. Ah, the power of brands.) He also seemed to have a good time, though he did not become what I would call a convert.I think part of it may just have been him wanting to be in something before his friends and family, then being frustrated when they weren't interested in that new thing.I have also encountered 13-15 year olds, not my players, who quite happily called Pathfinder 'D&D'. They did not care about branding, as far as they were concerned it was D&D, and the version of D&D that they wanted to play. (I would love to say that it was because they preferred the Pathfinder mechanics, but I suspect it had more to how with how the book looked and read than the actual systems.)And a group at the book store who were complaining about 4e, but sounded more like Exalted would fit them better than 3.x/Pathfinder. (They really were not happy with 4e, not at all.)The Auld Grump* By heated I mean loud, stubborn, and repetitive - you know, standard edition war behavior. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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