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<blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 5594505" data-attributes="member: 81381">Why do you think 4e fans would buy a 5e designed to appeal to fans like you? &nbsp;We'll just do what most of you lot did and play a rebranded knockoff, with the added advantage that ours will actually be worth playing.&nbsp;The bottom dollar is that no company can survive by pandering to ex-fans who are angry at them for imagined insults and even more imaginary design concepts.&nbsp;Nor can they do it by creating a game that is deliberatly less fun for new people who say things like 'I want to play a guy with a sword' or 'I don't want to just sit around and heal people'. Old school design isn't more immersive or naritivist, it's just bad. That's why they fixed it.&nbsp;The backlash against 4e is many things, but a valid business opportunity for wotc it is not. Paizo already siezed the brass ring for that one, wotc can't take it back, least of all by by making the same mistake again, and alienating the people who are currently buying it's books.&nbsp;Personally, I have no doubt that if we ever see a 5e, it will be stocked to the gills with pandering, while also trying to appeal to 4e players. &nbsp;And it will fail to bridge that gap, because most of the people bashing 4e will not be happy unless the brilliant improvements made in it are sufficiently damaged to appease them.&nbsp;The problem is, if that happens, me and all my book-buying, subscription-having buddies wil simply not buy it. After all- we know bad design when we see it.&nbsp;So either redbadge is right, and this is about, frankly, spin, in which case, the haters won't come back, or i'm right, and 5e will be essentials + 3.75, in which case 4e fans won't buy it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="catastrophic, post: 5594505, member: 81381"] Why do you think 4e fans would buy a 5e designed to appeal to fans like you? We'll just do what most of you lot did and play a rebranded knockoff, with the added advantage that ours will actually be worth playing. The bottom dollar is that no company can survive by pandering to ex-fans who are angry at them for imagined insults and even more imaginary design concepts. Nor can they do it by creating a game that is deliberatly less fun for new people who say things like 'I want to play a guy with a sword' or 'I don't want to just sit around and heal people'. Old school design isn't more immersive or naritivist, it's just bad. That's why they fixed it. The backlash against 4e is many things, but a valid business opportunity for wotc it is not. Paizo already siezed the brass ring for that one, wotc can't take it back, least of all by by making the same mistake again, and alienating the people who are currently buying it's books. Personally, I have no doubt that if we ever see a 5e, it will be stocked to the gills with pandering, while also trying to appeal to 4e players. And it will fail to bridge that gap, because most of the people bashing 4e will not be happy unless the brilliant improvements made in it are sufficiently damaged to appease them. The problem is, if that happens, me and all my book-buying, subscription-having buddies wil simply not buy it. After all- we know bad design when we see it. So either redbadge is right, and this is about, frankly, spin, in which case, the haters won't come back, or i'm right, and 5e will be essentials + 3.75, in which case 4e fans won't buy it. [/QUOTE]

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