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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5597808" data-attributes="member: 6668292">Well, what about having a conversation with me? I think I've tried to be reasonable. I'm not trying to make you defensive of your preference. I'm not aligned with many other posters here in terms of preferred play style, so it's not me and others against 4e, or any other edition.I think it's possible to have a constructive (or at least informative) conversation without becoming defensive, or without implying that others are acting irrationally. Even if you view it as such, it doesn't add much to the conversation by voicing it. In terms of potential power, yes, casters can be much more potent in 3e at later levels. I think the average game doesn't deal with the optimization or system mastery that most forums maintain, though. I also think that even with that system mastery, many people don't use that power divide against their teammates.At any rate, I think claiming that somebody is wrong for stating a preference is probably a bad statement to make. I could claim that my favorite cheese was processed American cheese, and someone could say "but that's not real cheese, so you're wrong." But, really, if it's my preferred cheese, then I'm not wrong in expressing my taste. Taste is subjective.Now, if you're talking about balance, or some other design goal that has yet to be expressed as the topic of conversation, I think you'll find many people in this thread will agree with you that 4e seems much more balanced than 3e. And as I said, if there's another design goal you want to discuss, we can talk about the implementations without getting defensive. I don't want an edition war, either, but I think making statements such as the following really contribute to the edition war:  Since you've mentioned no design goal, such as game balance, the above statement looks like you're condemning other people's enjoyment of a particular play style. Preferred play styles are innately subjective. I think that having a possible misinterpretation of your words (if you meant the above statement to be in response to balance, for example) is going to contribute more to the edition war than other ways to communicate your thoughts on the matter.  Everything isn't subjective, you're correct. I'd like to talk about more of the objective parts of game design, rather than about play style preferences, which are subjective. I think implying that people are wrong by enjoying the game (even if that's not what you mean) smacks of "badwrongfun" and many people here understandably don't like it, or don't agree with it (much as you disagree with people when they unjustifiably say the same to you).If you want to talk about mechanical implementation, and which edition came closer to achieving their goals, I'd like to. We can do so in a way that is reasonable, and doesn't cause either one of us to become defensive about our preferences.Well, forgive the poor analogy, but to me, it's like two people talking about the best way to get down a mountain. The mountain has two ways down: a trail that takes 4 hours walk at a leisurely pace, or an elevator that'll get you down in 2 minutes. People can debate which way is better for getting down, because, subjectively, there's been no stated objective goal yet. No one has said "what's the best way to get down the mountain quickly?"If that's the question, it suddenly becomes obvious. However, if the question is "what's the best way to get down the mountain?" then I can say "the trail" because I love walking in nature. I could also say "the elevator" because obviously, when it comes to getting down the mountain, the elevator is the fastest.I think that stating a goal a little more clearly before saying someone is wrong about something would greatly help people from getting defensive, as well as avoiding edition wars. It's also a lot more reasonable. If you're having fun, then yeah, you're winning D&D. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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