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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 4851303" data-attributes="member: 9053">I just wanted to say that I completely understand evilbob's position, because I was that guy: I had his position, except in my case the game was 3X. What I wanted to do was run a game using WotC books and pretty much just run it: my players would pick what they wanted from the core and the splats, and we'd have a game. There'd be nothing I couldn't handle, right?Wrong. The thing is, there is a core balance under which the game operates, and my players, by combining the different splats WotC had out for 3X, were moving so far outside the line that you could barely see it. I was running Shackled City at the time, and they were literally not challenged by anything the adventure threw at them. Those of you who've played or run that adventure will realize how crazy that statement is, because that's a hard adventure.So what I did was to re-write everything to bring it up to the level of the group. Once I did that, and I warned them I was doing it, the game became challenging and deadly again, but at the cost of an insane amount of prep time. It also became no fun for anyone. The group jokingly refers to the Temple of Wee Jas as "the battle that would never end."What I wanted was to run a game where I could say "yes" and include anything my group wanted to play from WotC's books, and have the game be fun. I didn't get that.The solution for me was 4.0. I told my group that, even with the problems I have with 4E (and I have a few--different from evilbob) I still felt comfortable letting them "have at it" with the available material, with only a smattering of bans or removal (I've banned exactly one class, for example--the battlerager).The result has been that 4E works for me and my group in a way that 3X just didn't. It's not WotC's fault or my group's...it's just that the mechanics didn't mesh well with their ability to game characters.For me, the solution before 4E launched was to massively retool my adventure to make it challenging. Honestly, if 4E hadn't come along I think I would have had to stop it due to player and GM fatigue. That is an option under 4E, retool the monsters to make them a challenge to your group, and house rule the things that are too problematic for you.That's not my ultimate suggestion, though, because that would only be a temporary patch. My real suggestion is to move to a game you actually feel comfortable with out of the box. For me, that game is (currently) 4E. For you? Honestly, I'd start a poll and ask for suggestions and move in that direction.Life is too short to make gaming into work.--Steve</blockquote>

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