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<blockquote data-quote="77IM" data-source="post: 4488953" data-attributes="member: 12377">Here's what I would have done.1)&nbsp; Explicitly tell the players that they are outmatched and need to run away.&nbsp; Just come out and say it.&nbsp; &quot;Uh guys, don't worry about defeating them.&nbsp; Just execute a tactical retreat, and come back later with a plan.&quot;2)&nbsp; If they are clearly outmatched -- if the encounter really is impossible -- I give out XP for running away.&nbsp; You could even do it as a skill challenge.&nbsp; It's a sort of consolation prize for the fact that I, the DM, have screwed the players for the needs of the story/setting/whatever.3)&nbsp; Remind them how to execute a tactical retreat -- or better yet, explain to them where they should be going.&nbsp; &quot;You notice that the wraiths never stray more than 50 ft from the well,&quot; for example.&nbsp; If you felt your description of the doors was falling on deaf ears, be sure you have drawn the doors on the map.&nbsp; If you're feeling nice, then when a skeleton misses on a 1, he accidentally knocks a door off its hinges, opening it and showing the players the comfy, skeleton-free interior.4)&nbsp; Do exactly what you did:&nbsp; Pin them in, play smart, hit them with all you've got.&nbsp; Players never learn tactics and teamwork from easy encounters.&nbsp; Against an even-level challenge, everybody whacks a monster with an encounter-power or two, and maybe there's some flanking and some Healing Word, but that's it.&nbsp; If the players are ever going to step up, it's in encounters like this; and when they do, it will be a really satisfying victory.BTW, this is totally different than the ooze encounter.&nbsp; In that fight they were literally unable to move; in this one they had plenty of options but felt like relying on rules and abilities instead of their own brains.&nbsp; The question you should ask yourself as the DM is, how could you have been more clear about the threat level, and made sure they were aware of all their options?&nbsp; At a certain point it becomes better to just tell the players explicitly and OOC what sort of stuff they should be doing.&nbsp; After enough of these encounters, they will start to figure it out on their own, and they will like that a lot.&nbsp;-- 77IM</blockquote>

[QUOTE="77IM, post: 4488953, member: 12377"] Here's what I would have done. 1) Explicitly tell the players that they are outmatched and need to run away. Just come out and say it. "Uh guys, don't worry about defeating them. Just execute a tactical retreat, and come back later with a plan." 2) If they are clearly outmatched -- if the encounter really is impossible -- I give out XP for running away. You could even do it as a skill challenge. It's a sort of consolation prize for the fact that I, the DM, have screwed the players for the needs of the story/setting/whatever. 3) Remind them how to execute a tactical retreat -- or better yet, explain to them where they should be going. "You notice that the wraiths never stray more than 50 ft from the well," for example. If you felt your description of the doors was falling on deaf ears, be sure you have drawn the doors on the map. If you're feeling nice, then when a skeleton misses on a 1, he accidentally knocks a door off its hinges, opening it and showing the players the comfy, skeleton-free interior. 4) Do exactly what you did: Pin them in, play smart, hit them with all you've got. Players never learn tactics and teamwork from easy encounters. Against an even-level challenge, everybody whacks a monster with an encounter-power or two, and maybe there's some flanking and some Healing Word, but that's it. If the players are ever going to step up, it's in encounters like this; and when they do, it will be a really satisfying victory. BTW, this is totally different than the ooze encounter. In that fight they were literally unable to move; in this one they had plenty of options but felt like relying on rules and abilities instead of their own brains. The question you should ask yourself as the DM is, how could you have been more clear about the threat level, and made sure they were aware of all their options? At a certain point it becomes better to just tell the players explicitly and OOC what sort of stuff they should be doing. After enough of these encounters, they will start to figure it out on their own, and they will like that a lot. -- 77IM [/QUOTE]

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