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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Keenath" data-source="post: 4490658" data-attributes="member: 59792">I'm just gonna echo some of the other comments here, probably, but...As far as I'm concerned, the blame for this one is about a 60/40 split, and you're the sixty.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You started out with an encounter level that's as hard as is recommended, at the very limit of the party's ability to handle.  That means they'll need most of their resources for that one fight -- most of their daily powers, all the available surges, and so on.  And then you expect them to have two more fights after that?  Not cool.  They might wind up in good enough shape to keep going, but this is the sort of battle that might very well cost their whole day's worth of resources. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Given this very hard fight, you then loaded it up with soldiers, which are A) more deadly in groups, and B) really hard to kill.  That's what soldiers DO.  They're defenders.  So yeah, the fight is going to automatically be a smashfest with lots of HP damage on both sides. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Then you started the fight with the PCs in the worst possible spot, a pincher maneuver.  In fact, if I'm reading this right, you started out with the enemy in melee range.  That's automatically kicking every range-heavy character in the nuts -- you're telling them, "Oh, hey, you can't use your best attacks without getting punched in the face for your trouble, and you also can't go anywhere to escape." </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And they were missing a player. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Yeah, they could've gotten away from the fight by using the doors or climbing.  But the fact is that most players -- most HUMANS -- don't think in three dimensions very well, and often don't consider going up to escape; and running away from a situation by dashing through a previously closed door is often a death sentence all by itself.  You, as DM, know that there's nothing dangerous on the other side of that door, but the players don't.  As far as they're concerned, that door might conceal a half-dozen more skeletons!  After all, you just sprang this lot on them with no warning... why should inside the house be any better?</li> </ul>The players were a little bit stupid not to take advantage of tactics that seemed to be working, like throwing things down the well, and to ignore the hints you threw out.. but on the other hand, those are hints from the guy who just sprung ten powerful monsters on them in such a way that they can't really escape (or not in an obvious way).  Why should they think you have their interests at heart?Anyway, in my experience, TPKs almost always happen this way.  The party doesn't realize how outclassed they are until they already have casualties and the remainder are in too bad a shape to make a decent retreat.  Everyone is concerned with husbanding their own resources and doesn't comprehend the larger picture (such as that the party is rapidly running through its healing surges and the enemy isn't taking nearly that much damage).  The party doesn't realize how far from being dead the enemy is, and keeps hoping next turn will see everything turn around.But frankly, the whole thing was a charlie foxtrot from the very beginning.  A very tough fight with awful initial tactical positioning (by DM fiat, no less) should've sent up every warning flag you had that this was a bad fight to run.  The fact that they were going to attempt this one character short and you didn't see fit to adjust the difficulty makes this mostly your fault.</blockquote>

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