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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Daniel" data-source="post: 8529601" data-attributes="member: 694"><p>Age: 37</p><p>Year started: 1998 (I played a couple of times before that, but '98 was my freshman year of high school and also when I seriously started gaming)</p><p>First RPG: The Classic D&D Game (the mid-90s trade-sized reissue of the black box)</p><p></p><p>Formative experiences: Played Classic D&D and AD&D 2E in high-school, with peers and teachers alike (though the way teachers ran games had little impact on how we played amongst ourselves, and we had <em>considerably</em> more time to play amongst ourselves). My friends and I took turns DMing campaigns, with the tacit understanding that one campaign = one complete multi-arc (typically save-the-world) "plot", and like a JRPG, once that plot was done with, the world it took place in was also to be discarded and never revisited again. Each player in the group brought their favorite flavor of fantasy to their own campaigns. For me it was Oz and Narnia (and after 2001, <em>Arcanum</em>); for my friend who owned the D&D set it was <em>Final Fantasy</em> and <em>Quest for Glory</em>; for our third compatriot it was Tolkien; and our fourth was a <em>Shining Force</em> fan. Our play-style eventually became a mélange of these influences and the 90s trad play-culture (which could best be summed up by the grating admonition: "<em>Role</em>-play, don't <em>roll</em>-play"). Group member no. 2 (the FF/QfG stan who owned the D&D box) was our most frequent DM at first, and he was <em>adamant</em> about ignoring as many game-rules as possible, as often as possible: he basically wanted D&D to be freeform improv, as well as an opportunity for him to make up stories on the fly (which was, of course, precisely why they always felt like railroads). His attitude was that DMing was "his art," and because of that, to this day, I recoil from too much improv, too much on-the-fly GMing, or any pretension that RPGs are an art-form.</p><p></p><p>My preference, meanwhile, was to actually read and apply the rules. (But I still bought into that 90s <em>"It'S aLl AbOuT tHe StOrY"</em> hogwash, so my own DMing style back then was still as trad as trad could be.) As soon as we could afford 2E books, we switched to 2E. (Any 1E books that we found were incorporated into our 2E games without question. We never played 2E <em>without</em> monks and assassins.) When 3E came out, we immediately rejoiced at how much it "fixed" clunky, restrictive old D&D. In college, I carried on playing 3E and then 3.5 until around 2006, when I got sick of the edition's burdensome complexity. I switched back to Classic D&D and was immediately happier with those rules. (It also helped that the OSR started happening shortly thereafter, providing content for my edition of choice.) I got <em>really</em> into the OSR, including doing a bit of publishing; but it was a long, halting, stop-and-go journey for me to shake off the trad play-style and figure out old-school. I didn't run a megadungeon until <em>2011</em>. I didn't run a sandbox hex-crawl or start awarding XP for treasure until <em>2012</em>. (In 2013–2014 I actually quit D&D for a time, believing that I had exhausted the possibilities of dungeon-delving campaigns, and because I grew to dislike the power curve. The OSR game <em>Beyond the Wall</em> flattened that curve and brought me back into the fold, but I tried many, many other RPGs during this window, and none of them ever "scratched the itch" like D&D.) I didn't let PCs die at 0 hp until just before the pandemic started, and I had never run level drain by the book, or enforced training to level up, or tried to run a proper "troupe play / West Marches" type campaign until <em>this</em> year.</p><p></p><p>But it's a fact that every time I've discarded a remnant of trad play in favor of the old-school, my campaigns have been better for it, and I've been happier with my DMing.</p><p></p><p>Controversies:</p><p></p><p>Yes, old D&D has some obnoxiously problematic material in it. It <em>is</em> for the best to change those things and move forward. (But don't forget that they were there either: put a disclaimer on old books and keep 'em in print.) Do I think that orcs and drow should be inherently evil? Definitely not, <em>if</em> they're mortal humanoids with intelligence and moral agency. But that doesn't preclude settings where they're <em>not</em> natural creatures — if orcs are demonic flesh-constructs, or drow are amoral fae spirits, do whatever you like with them. (In my own campaigns, I like the notion of grounded, humanoid orcs and goblins, but I also want to fill the demonic flesh-construct niche with critters inspired by the likes of skaven, broo, and trollocs.)</p><p></p><p>Are new RPGs better than old RPGs? Clearly not. Game design is fashion trends, not technology. It doesn't appear to me to evolve cumulatively the way that a growing body of knowledge does. Game designers aren't auteurs, and modern game design is full of nasty pitfalls. Game rules that look "streamlined" or "elegant" on paper are no guarantee of a superior experience at the table. (I've come by that realization the honest way, boy-howdy.) Conversely, "clunky" rules and lookup tables can in fact be the best tool for the job. Certainly, <em>restrictions</em> have their place when it comes to fostering creativity. And if you ask me, "system matters" can only take you so far: yes, it matters somewhat, but it's nowhere near as determinative as received wisdom would have it. (If you, in your capacity as GM, ignore a rule in the moment for whatever reason, you're not suddenly <em>not</em> playing that game anymore.) And this weird modern obsession with laser-focusing a game on one custom-tailored experience — that only narrows what games can do. TTRPGs shouldn't be Unix apps; DOTADIW isn't a virtue in and of itself, any more than preferring a variety of systems over a universal system is virtuous. (And D&D is plenty bendable enough if you want D&D to be your universal system, thank you <em>very</em> much!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Daniel, post: 8529601, member: 694"] Age: 37 Year started: 1998 (I played a couple of times before that, but '98 was my freshman year of high school and also when I seriously started gaming) First RPG: The Classic D&D Game (the mid-90s trade-sized reissue of the black box) Formative experiences: Played Classic D&D and AD&D 2E in high-school, with peers and teachers alike (though the way teachers ran games had little impact on how we played amongst ourselves, and we had [I]considerably[/I] more time to play amongst ourselves). My friends and I took turns DMing campaigns, with the tacit understanding that one campaign = one complete multi-arc (typically save-the-world) "plot", and like a JRPG, once that plot was done with, the world it took place in was also to be discarded and never revisited again. Each player in the group brought their favorite flavor of fantasy to their own campaigns. For me it was Oz and Narnia (and after 2001, [I]Arcanum[/I]); for my friend who owned the D&D set it was [I]Final Fantasy[/I] and [I]Quest for Glory[/I]; for our third compatriot it was Tolkien; and our fourth was a [I]Shining Force[/I] fan. Our play-style eventually became a mélange of these influences and the 90s trad play-culture (which could best be summed up by the grating admonition: "[I]Role[/I]-play, don't [I]roll[/I]-play"). Group member no. 2 (the FF/QfG stan who owned the D&D box) was our most frequent DM at first, and he was [I]adamant[/I] about ignoring as many game-rules as possible, as often as possible: he basically wanted D&D to be freeform improv, as well as an opportunity for him to make up stories on the fly (which was, of course, precisely why they always felt like railroads). His attitude was that DMing was "his art," and because of that, to this day, I recoil from too much improv, too much on-the-fly GMing, or any pretension that RPGs are an art-form. My preference, meanwhile, was to actually read and apply the rules. (But I still bought into that 90s [I]"It'S aLl AbOuT tHe StOrY"[/I] hogwash, so my own DMing style back then was still as trad as trad could be.) As soon as we could afford 2E books, we switched to 2E. (Any 1E books that we found were incorporated into our 2E games without question. We never played 2E [I]without[/I] monks and assassins.) When 3E came out, we immediately rejoiced at how much it "fixed" clunky, restrictive old D&D. In college, I carried on playing 3E and then 3.5 until around 2006, when I got sick of the edition's burdensome complexity. I switched back to Classic D&D and was immediately happier with those rules. (It also helped that the OSR started happening shortly thereafter, providing content for my edition of choice.) I got [I]really[/I] into the OSR, including doing a bit of publishing; but it was a long, halting, stop-and-go journey for me to shake off the trad play-style and figure out old-school. I didn't run a megadungeon until [I]2011[/I]. I didn't run a sandbox hex-crawl or start awarding XP for treasure until [I]2012[/I]. (In 2013–2014 I actually quit D&D for a time, believing that I had exhausted the possibilities of dungeon-delving campaigns, and because I grew to dislike the power curve. The OSR game [I]Beyond the Wall[/I] flattened that curve and brought me back into the fold, but I tried many, many other RPGs during this window, and none of them ever "scratched the itch" like D&D.) I didn't let PCs die at 0 hp until just before the pandemic started, and I had never run level drain by the book, or enforced training to level up, or tried to run a proper "troupe play / West Marches" type campaign until [I]this[/I] year. But it's a fact that every time I've discarded a remnant of trad play in favor of the old-school, my campaigns have been better for it, and I've been happier with my DMing. Controversies: Yes, old D&D has some obnoxiously problematic material in it. It [I]is[/I] for the best to change those things and move forward. (But don't forget that they were there either: put a disclaimer on old books and keep 'em in print.) Do I think that orcs and drow should be inherently evil? Definitely not, [I]if[/I] they're mortal humanoids with intelligence and moral agency. But that doesn't preclude settings where they're [I]not[/I] natural creatures — if orcs are demonic flesh-constructs, or drow are amoral fae spirits, do whatever you like with them. (In my own campaigns, I like the notion of grounded, humanoid orcs and goblins, but I also want to fill the demonic flesh-construct niche with critters inspired by the likes of skaven, broo, and trollocs.) Are new RPGs better than old RPGs? Clearly not. Game design is fashion trends, not technology. It doesn't appear to me to evolve cumulatively the way that a growing body of knowledge does. Game designers aren't auteurs, and modern game design is full of nasty pitfalls. Game rules that look "streamlined" or "elegant" on paper are no guarantee of a superior experience at the table. (I've come by that realization the honest way, boy-howdy.) Conversely, "clunky" rules and lookup tables can in fact be the best tool for the job. Certainly, [I]restrictions[/I] have their place when it comes to fostering creativity. And if you ask me, "system matters" can only take you so far: yes, it matters somewhat, but it's nowhere near as determinative as received wisdom would have it. (If you, in your capacity as GM, ignore a rule in the moment for whatever reason, you're not suddenly [I]not[/I] playing that game anymore.) And this weird modern obsession with laser-focusing a game on one custom-tailored experience — that only narrows what games can do. TTRPGs shouldn't be Unix apps; DOTADIW isn't a virtue in and of itself, any more than preferring a variety of systems over a universal system is virtuous. (And D&D is plenty bendable enough if you want D&D to be your universal system, thank you [I]very[/I] much!) [/QUOTE]
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