D&D 3E/3.5 Forsaker 3.5 PrC

moritheil

First Post
We've established that there is no 3.5 conversion, which leaves the door open to homebrewed versions.

So here's my shot at a 5-level PrC for the Forsaker. Perhaps it really should have been spaced out over 10 levels, but I didn't think that the character concept warranted a full 10 levels of emphasis.

Before you comment, let me note that the discussion here continually indicates that the PrC is worthless and needs to be changed so that it's much more powerful. I wrote the abilities with that in mind.
 

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Crothian said:
I'f up thre HD to d12 since it is more barbarian fighter oriented

Hmm, so it's still not powerful enough. Okay, I'll consider that.

Updated it just now to specify that the DR and fast healing gained stack with those gained via other (nonmagical) means.
 

I mostly like the sorts of changes you've made. I'd switch the required feats back to what they were -- Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes. The forsaker takes damamge, its what they do. I'd also give it a d12 hit die. The origional forsaker also was given a natural armor bonus equal to the Con modifier (if positive). Yuo could throw that back in.

What I like is that they are no longer dependent upon magic. Now they're an anti-magic prestige class, which makes a lot more sense. I like the special power's they've been given, especially disjunction by touch. That's pretty. I can just imagine a paladin hitting a forsaker with his Holy Avenger, and the Avenger crumbles.

After all, the Holy Avenger touched the forsaker. Or did you want to not allow that?

Hmm.. Do they need all those skill points?

When I see Endurance and Toughness as prereques, I expect the class to be stupendously powerful. Because those feats are really underpowered.
 

He definately needs the skill points...as he gets higher and higher levels when the rest of the party can flies he needs to be able to jump really high...he needs to allow skills to somewhat compensate for his lack of magic.
 

Eolin said:
I mostly like the sorts of changes you've made. I'd switch the required feats back to what they were -- Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes. The forsaker takes damamge, its what they do. I'd also give it a d12 hit die. The origional forsaker also was given a natural armor bonus equal to the Con modifier (if positive). Yuo could throw that back in.

What I like is that they are no longer dependent upon magic. Now they're an anti-magic prestige class, which makes a lot more sense. I like the special power's they've been given, especially disjunction by touch. That's pretty. I can just imagine a paladin hitting a forsaker with his Holy Avenger, and the Avenger crumbles.

After all, the Holy Avenger touched the forsaker. Or did you want to not allow that?

Hmm.. Do they need all those skill points?

When I see Endurance and Toughness as prereques, I expect the class to be stupendously powerful. Because those feats are really underpowered.

Thank you.

I'm not sure if that's how "by touch" powers work in 3.5; I always thought that it required an action upon the user's part, but if that's how other powers that act upon touch work, it's fully my intent to have the forsaker's powers work the same way.

As Stalker0 graciously pointed out, the forsaker should have massive skill points, if for no other reason than to take a great many ranks in Ride, Climb, Jump, Handle Animal, and the like.

Regarding AC and hit point issues, I'm curious as to whether everyone thinks those are the best way to deal with it, or if more DR and fast healing would be better. I see the revised forsaker as making his way through the world without magic largely through effort of will. Magic recoils from him because he refuses to let it touch him. His dogged persistence and tenacity are what enable him to survive. As such, I see him as more thematic if he keeps getting hit and shrugging it off than if he is simply not getting hit. I suppose someone could forward an argument for better parallels with someone who avoids magic, and similarly avoids getting hit, so I'll entertain that thought when I see it.

Endurance is not actually, IMO, a bad pre-requisite for someone who is going to spend a great deal of time out in the wilds. People are not going to want them in most cities, due to the unpleasant (for users of magic) side effects of their presence at higher levels. Depending on the magic level of a campaign, they could probably get along just fine in a village or small city, however.

Toughness is indeed a bad feat for non-mages to take, and of course no mage will want to be a Forsaker. I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with regard to the feats. I don't see a forsaker as being peternaturally fast, or resistant to the various applications of magic through anything but force of will, however.

Perhaps I'll add something to make Spell Blank even more potent, like a second chance for it to activate. Thought you finally charmed the Forsaker? Nope, he was just playing along with his maximum-rank Bluff skill. Hey, it looks like all your protective magics just got disjoined, and is that a sharp dagger in his hand?
 

moritheil said:
I'm not sure if that's how "by touch" powers work in 3.5; I always thought that it required an action upon the user's part, but if that's how other powers that act upon touch work, it's fully my intent to have the forsaker's powers work the same way.

You are correct: touch effects require a deliberate touch. Being touched does not count unless specified otherwise.


glass.
 

One of the big things that forsakers have against them is that they can't benefit from spells like fly, teleport and water breathing. If these kinds of spells are necessary for the party to go on, the forsaker is out of luck.

If you are thinking of using a forsaker, it is probably best to have it in a "low-magic" kind of campaign where, for example, the party doesn't fly or teleport around all the time. Jester posted a neat thread on this very theme. You should check it out. (I don't have the link handy, but it is high up in the forums.)

The other big thing against forsakers is their vulnerability to special attacks. Ability damage is bad, ability drain is worse. Magical diseases are somewhere in between. You have fast healing to compensate for the lack of magical healing (in fact, you have more than you really need) but you should have something for these other kinds of attacks.
 

The problem with the 3.0 Forsaker wasn't that it was worthless or underpowered. The problem was that in some ways, it didn't make sense.

The 3.0 Forsaker received DR, but only after it destroyed magic items.

Huh? Sounds like magic parasite or magic destroyer, not forsaker.

If you want a 3.5 Forsaker, I recommend creating a "disbeliever" type of PRC. This guy doesn't believe in magic, believes in science instead. Or create a superstitious guy who wants nothing to do with magic, the barbarian forsaker.

Your barbarian forsaker might have super-high will power, even higher will save than the normal barbarian.

But in any case, you want to stay away from "supernatural abilities" like DR, because supernatural powers do not make sense for someone who is avoiding magic.

So, if I was going to make a Barbarian Forsaker PRC, I would do the following:
1) Send the Barbarian into rage automatically anytime someone casts a spell on him (if he still has rage uses per day left)
2) Give Good will save
3) Give extra skill points. say 6 skill points per level (self-reliance)
Otherwise, keep all the other barbarian abiliities the same
 

Oh yeah. That's another problem with the forsaker. How do you role-play them in a party where there are several spellcasters? And face it, lots of people cast spells. Aside from wizards, clerics, sorcerers and druids, there are bards, paladins and rangers. That's 7 out of the 11 base classes. Yet another reason to look at a variant rule set like Jester's, which makes several of these classes non-magical.

I can't remember if it has already been specified, but I suppose it should be a rule that a forsaker cannot voluntarily fail a save. This should apply even if they are unconscious.
 

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