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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Berandor" data-source="post: 754958" data-attributes="member: 225">Hong: Excellent quote there! As someone who reads most FR novels and supplements to keep up with the setting, I have experienced that reaction myself and seen it in my fellow gamers. When someone is uncovered wearing a ring with the likeness of a dragon engraved on it, all the players go "Dragon Cult? Damn we're in trouble!". It's surely a great way to enhance the game - and to mess with player's expectations.Swack-Iron: I think when people complain about high-levell NPCs or whatever, they are basically stating that the FR aren't to their liking. It's just a more detailed way of saying it, namely stating what exactly bithers them.What I don't like about the Realms stems mainly from the novels, and from the fact that magic solves any problem. I can name various novels that included parts I didn't like specifically:Elminster in Hell, where pit fiends and other high devils are defeated with the flick of a hand. Not that they defeat pit fiends, but that very powerful devils just burst apart with one gesture. That's boring. Now don't get me wrong. I actually like Elminster and the Chosen.Return of the Archwizards Book III, when the Chosen travel inside the heroes bowels with protection from acid and reduce. That's not only gross, it's a cop-out that I as GM would hesitate to allow my players.Most novels, and the reason why the Realms are not gritty in the end: The good guys win. Everytime and in every angle. Not even Evereska is overrun with Phaerimm, but the few survivors fend them off in the end. Not one of Drizzt's friends dies, but they all resurface and survive, and come back healthy (o.K., Wulfgar has made it through a lot of trouble, but at the end of the novel, all's well). And all other small instances where it seems that some evil group gains ground - in the end, they lose. Each and every time. Other examples include Red Wizard's attacks on Aglarond and Rashemen, the Zhentarim's downfall in Daggerdale, the seven-hundred and fifty-three invasions of Shadowdale, the invasion of Evermeet, and so on...The drow now hold Cormanthor - but nothing will follow this.One notable exception is the Fall of Azoun and Tanalesta of Cormyr, as written in "Death of the Dragon".As to Magic is incorporated logically into the Realms: Really? Then what about "Raise Dead" spells and its ilk? Wouldn't all those mighty people that died throughout the course of its history have been brought back? Azoun springs to mind immediately, but also evil factions. Are Ressurections and Scryings truly incorporated?I would assume that Cormyr has a permanent Scrying room that guards the Stonelands, so that they see when humanoids form roving bands. Or that people try to scry upon rulers to learn their doings. What about a great "Detect Undead/Detect Evil" spell trying to find Dracoliches? Or Mass teleports for armies (imagine Thay's skeleton army traveling through massive teleport spells into the middle of Aglarond); "Create Water" at city wells, combined with "Purify food and drink"; invisible city guards (armed with boots of flying); incredible architectural feats manufactured with "Fabricate"; animated carts used for traveling through a city; water-breathing hobby divers; magic mouth-"do not disturb"-signs in hotels; you get the idea.Frankly, the inclusion of magic into the Realms is more a "that would be cool"-factor than a logical and wll-thought application. Perhaps the best example concerns courts of justice:With the alignments (detectable), Lie-detection, truth-forcing magic, high-level scryings and detect thoughts as well as the possibility to speak with deceased victims, there should be an infallible system of justice and law-enforcement in the Realms.A wand of detect thoughts and a wand of discern lies go a long way towards determining justice.The only reason this is not a perfect world is that there are all kinds of anti-magic-spells in existance. You can't scry into Thay, for example, and a ring of mind shielding helps in court (but should raise suspicions). Cormyr's nobles have a plea that doesn't allow for them to be raised.That's basically the same as saying the magic doesn't exist at all, and that's not incorporating it logically into the world.Still, (I think it isn't obvious from my post) I play the Realms since I play D&D, and I DM the Realms, too (together with Kalamar). They are hokey, and chaotic, and sometimes silly, but I love them. My players know the Realms, and the setting's structure (or lack thereof) grants me the leeway to basically do what I want with them. Every family has its black sheep, and the RRealms have theirs, but still.Berandor</blockquote>

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