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<blockquote data-quote="Cernunnos" data-source="post: 845935" data-attributes="member: 8821">Maybe I wasn't clear enough...&nbsp; the Starym were destroyed (well, they were THOUGHT to be destroyed) because they broke elven convention in a MAJOR way, and knowingly so.&nbsp; Thus, evil.&nbsp; Eldreth Veluthraa...&nbsp; evil by any conventional sense, but I still see them viewing themselves as &quot;freedom fighters&quot; rather than terrorists.&nbsp; Granted, their actions clearly show where they stand.&nbsp; Sanctity of Life has always been a pretty big part of elven philosophy in ANY campaign world (except maybe Dark Sun...&nbsp; the elves there were downright social Darwinists).&nbsp; At the very least, I'd think even the most hostile gold elf would find it more indicitive of a civilized upbringing to talk out their problems before resorting to blows.&nbsp; And I'm all about moral relativism and shades of grey in my campaigns.&nbsp; It makes characters think that much more when they can actually kind of understand an enemy's motivation.&nbsp; To me, the best villians are the ones that the characters can see the potential for in themselves.&nbsp; Its why I'm such a fan of the Eldreth Veluthraa...&nbsp; the fact that some Gold Elves would sink so low in the attempt to regain what they'd had has a nice air of tragedy to it.Its been awhile since I've read it, but Elaine Cunningham's Thornhold had an excellent character who was a priest of Cyric.&nbsp; While evil, he had actually been raised that way, while his sister was a Harper.&nbsp; The fact that he'd been raised in the cult of an Evil god amongst the Zhentarim made him that much more of a believable villain to me.I guess the biggest problem I saw with this thread was those comments by people who took those 2 groups as common gold elves (granted, they are the only ones you ever really hear or read about in the books).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cernunnos, post: 845935, member: 8821"] Maybe I wasn't clear enough... the Starym were destroyed (well, they were THOUGHT to be destroyed) because they broke elven convention in a MAJOR way, and knowingly so. Thus, evil. Eldreth Veluthraa... evil by any conventional sense, but I still see them viewing themselves as "freedom fighters" rather than terrorists. Granted, their actions clearly show where they stand. Sanctity of Life has always been a pretty big part of elven philosophy in ANY campaign world (except maybe Dark Sun... the elves there were downright social Darwinists). At the very least, I'd think even the most hostile gold elf would find it more indicitive of a civilized upbringing to talk out their problems before resorting to blows. And I'm all about moral relativism and shades of grey in my campaigns. It makes characters think that much more when they can actually kind of understand an enemy's motivation. To me, the best villians are the ones that the characters can see the potential for in themselves. Its why I'm such a fan of the Eldreth Veluthraa... the fact that some Gold Elves would sink so low in the attempt to regain what they'd had has a nice air of tragedy to it. Its been awhile since I've read it, but Elaine Cunningham's Thornhold had an excellent character who was a priest of Cyric. While evil, he had actually been raised that way, while his sister was a Harper. The fact that he'd been raised in the cult of an Evil god amongst the Zhentarim made him that much more of a believable villain to me. I guess the biggest problem I saw with this thread was those comments by people who took those 2 groups as common gold elves (granted, they are the only ones you ever really hear or read about in the books). [/QUOTE]

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