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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 846379" data-attributes="member: 2067">Well, my argument for those two groups (whom I think we can all agree at least ACT in a LN-LE fasion) representing perhaps a growing trend of all Sun Elves is the whole 'apple don't fall far from the tree' idea...I guess viewing the world as any sort of heirarchy is, to me, almost completely antithetical to a Chaotic outlook...there are rankings, and there are things that shuold be just because of the rankings, and the rankings are the Right way to live, and breaking the chains of these rankings is Wrong.The stronger a race tends to beleive this, and the less they act in other ways (which is what saves most elves), the more Lawful they get. If they see this heirarchy as a way to put themselves in power and subjugate others, it's Evil. If they see this heirarchy as a way to enlighten people and lead them as a single unit to victory over an enemy, it's Good. If it's somewhere in between, it's Neutral.Shades of gray are all well and good, and that's illustrated in the fact that Alignment isn't determined from within, it's put on you from without. Someone in the world never knows what their alignment is (e.g.: players know it, CHARACTERS don't). These sun elves may think they're doing the Right Thing, but put simply, it's not judged Right based on what they think. What they think they're doing is irrelevant to the acts itself. And certain segments of Sun Elf have worked in ways that are Lawful Evil - Lawful Neutral. The reasons why or the motivations of or the true ideas are largely irrelevant. Alignment largely doesn't care WHY you do something, it only cares THAT you do something. It stems from motives, but is DEFINED by actions.Thus, a character hears that there's going to be some great and wonderful event planned, they have to consider the source it's coming from and what events that source may see as wonderful. THERE's the shade of gray. Or in a human who is summoning a demon only for the greater good....at the very BEST, this can be neutral, as it is putting at risk a greater number of people, though admitedly for their potential benefit. The act isn't good, regardless of the goals -- at best, it's Neutral, and that's only if the summoner retains all the virtue of a Paladin in dealing with the creature.Oh, and also:To steal a line from Psion: I learned long ago that game designers are nobody to be put on a pedestal. They make mistakes and bad choices just like any amateur or 3rd party publisher of PDF's out there, oftentimes more. There is no reason *not* to believe that the sole reason Sun Elves continue to be CG is because either (a) someone made an editing boo-boo or (b) CG is the kewlist alignment, and the kewlist race (the elves) should all be that.</blockquote>

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