Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Franken-caster: The Arcanist(?)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AlmirEldignor" data-source="post: 6845033" data-attributes="member: 6795736"><p>So I've been working on a concept for a caster that uses INT like a wizard, but internalizes spells to such a degree that he doesn't need a spell book (i.e. known spells instead of prepared spells). I'll share the basics of what I've got so far, than proffer my questions to the community below that. The overall "theme" of the class is basically a wizard who sacrificed some of the depth of casting flexibility (no spellbook) for a greater range of non-casting knowledge (expertise, JoaT, etc), sort of like what I recall of the 3e sorcerer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The Arcanist</p><p>[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 950, align: center"][TR][TD]Level[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Features[/TD][TD]Cantrips[/TD][TD]Spells Known[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]1[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Spellcasting, Arcane Recovery[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]2[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD](Jack of all Trades or Metamagic), Arcane Tradition[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]3[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Expertise, Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]4[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]5[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]6[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]7[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]8[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]9[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]10[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Expertise Improvement, Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]11[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]12[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]13[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]14[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]15[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]16[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]17[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]18[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Spell Mastery[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]19[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]20[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]Signature Spell[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][TD]</p><p>[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]<span style="font-size: 12px">Class Features:</span></p><p>Hit Points</p><p>Hit Dice: (1d6 or 1d8) per arcanist level</p><p>Hit Points at 1st Level: (6 or 8) + CON mod</p><p>Hit Points at Higher Levels: (1d6 or 1d8) or (4 or 5) + CON mod per arcanist level after 1st</p><p></p><p>Proficiencies</p><p>Armor: (None or Light)</p><p>Weapons: (Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows) or (Simple weapons, hand crossbows, longswords, rapiers, shortswords)</p><p>Tools: None</p><p>Saving Throws: (INT and WIS or INT and DEX)</p><p>Skills: (2 from Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion or Any 3)</p><p></p><p>Equipment: (As proficiencies dictate)</p><p></p><p><u>1st> Spellcasting:</u></p><p><u></u>Cantrips: As shown in table, using Wizard list.</p><p>Spell Slots: as full caster</p><p>Spells Known: Still iffy on this bit, explain below</p><p>Spellcasting Ability: INT</p><p>Ritual Casting: Any known ritual, like bard.</p><p>Spellcasting Focus: Arcane focus.</p><p></p><p><u>1st> Arcane Recovery</u>: As Wizard.</p><p></p><p><u>2nd> Jack of All Trades:</u> As Bard.</p><p>or</p><p><u>Metamagic:</u> As sorcerer (sort of, explain below)</p><p></p><p><u>2nd> Arcane Tradition:</u> As Wizard, with the following potential changes:</p><p>Instead of half-cost to add school spells into spellbook, instead either 1) learn additional spell every 2 levels up to 12th, any class, as long as its in the school (as a mirror for magic secrets, or up to 16th level to match Lore bard secrets) or 2) Starting at 2nd level you effectively add all spells of the school to the list of "available spells" (I'll elaborate my thoughts on this below)</p><p></p><p><u>3rd> Arcane Tradition Feature</u>: The "other" 2nd level wizard school feature comes here.</p><p></p><p><u>3rd> Expertise:</u> As Bard, but choose only 1 proficiency at 10th level.</p><p></p><p><u>6th. 10th, 14th > Arcane Tradition Feature:</u> This one and the ones at 10th and 14th are as Wizard.</p><p></p><p><u>18th> Spell Master:</u> As Wizard, but with specific disallowance of healing (since some schools might get healing magic normally unavailable to the wizard list)</p><p></p><p><u>20th> Signature Spell:</u> As Wizard.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So basically, you trade the spellbook and all its versatility for "known" spells and a few of the bard's features. If this was all I'd say that it's OP, which is why I was thinking the spells known should be less than a Bard, maybe halfway between a bard and a sorcerer. A Wizard with 20 INT can prepare 25 spells at 20th level, so i would think anything more than 20 spells total (including any from the school feature, if it ends up performing that function) should be pretty much the upper limit.</p><p></p><p>Alright so for the Hit Dice/Proficiencies:</p><p>For hit dice I think it should be d6's simply because the "fighting" flavour isnt included here as it is with bard.</p><p>For proficiencies the flavour of the class would have me take the "Any 3" from bard, and the INT/WIS saves from Wizard.</p><p>Weapon profs, I think should be just any simple weapons, maybe a couple basic martials like shortswords</p><p></p><p>Spellcasting:</p><p>Cantrips I set as Wizard just because wizard is the base class for this one. I think an argument could be made for bard-level cantrips also.</p><p>Spell slots is where it gets complicated for me. A Bard, without counting magical secrets (cause that's been replaced by the school spells, maybe) is: 4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/13/14/14/15/15/16/16/16/16. A sorcerer gets almost the same base (ending at 15 but starting at 2) but doesn't have any more than that, instead receiving Metamagic, which I have also considered as an option for this class. If we include the magical secrets, it takes the bard up to 22, as shown in the PHB (24 with lore bard). My original target for spells known is 20, so something a little weaker perhaps than basic magic secrets, say, 5 additional spells for 21 total. However, I would like to give the school spells feature a chance to work at all levels (except maybe 8 and 9, where selection is so small as to make any increase a statistically larger contributor) so we'll say 7 more spells. To fit my target of 20, I need 13 base spells, which is even lower than sorcerer. I think it could work, but feels less effective to me as a solution. If, instead, I use the school feature to expand the available spells at level up without adding more known, I can make my target of 20 happen easily, and use: 4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/17/18/18/19/19/20. It could also be adjusted down if 20 proves too many. I'll move on before my ramble becomes a wall-of-text avalanche.</p><p></p><p>Metamagic vs Jack of all Trades:</p><p>I feel that Jack of all Trades fits better with the theme, but Metamagic backs off the bard's territory a little more. Also, including metamagic at this level means getting it sooner than the sorcerer. Including it at all means finding some way for it to stack with the sorcerer's if needed. If it does get included, it would have to run off a new resource, maybe "metamagic points" or something. Probably less points available than the sorc, since the sorc's points can convert into slots as well as fuel class features.</p><p></p><p>Arcane Tradition Feature:</p><p>"School" Expert> This is the feature that's messing up all my thoughts on spells known above. I'd like it to either be adding spells known of the school, or allowing additional choices with existing spells known. I'll write up an example of each:</p><p></p><p>Abjuration Expert</p><p>Beginning at 2nd level, and every other level thereafter, you can choose one abjuration spell from any class's spell list and add it to your list of known spells. <em>These spells are included in the "Spells Known" column of the arcanist table. </em>(I'd include it if this is the version I end up using)</p><p></p><p>or </p><p></p><p>Divination Expert</p><p>Beginning at 2nd level, when you learn a new spell (as shown in the "Spells Known" column of the arcanist table) you can learn any divination spell from any class list instead of your normal spell for that level.</p><p></p><p>Obviously the wording needs refined, but that's the basics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I realize its a lot of information to process (and includes a good bit of my own process for developing classes, so maybe even less easy to understand) but I'm hoping for some useful feedback/suggestions/criticisms from you guys to help get this idea moving again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AlmirEldignor, post: 6845033, member: 6795736"] So I've been working on a concept for a caster that uses INT like a wizard, but internalizes spells to such a degree that he doesn't need a spell book (i.e. known spells instead of prepared spells). I'll share the basics of what I've got so far, than proffer my questions to the community below that. The overall "theme" of the class is basically a wizard who sacrificed some of the depth of casting flexibility (no spellbook) for a greater range of non-casting knowledge (expertise, JoaT, etc), sort of like what I recall of the 3e sorcerer. The Arcanist [TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 950, align: center"][TR][TD]Level[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Features[/TD][TD]Cantrips[/TD][TD]Spells Known[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]1[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Spellcasting, Arcane Recovery[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]2[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD](Jack of all Trades or Metamagic), Arcane Tradition[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]3[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Expertise, Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]3[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]4[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]5[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]6[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]7[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]8[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]9[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]10[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Expertise Improvement, Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]11[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]12[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]13[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]14[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Arcane Tradition Feature[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]15[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]16[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]17[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]---[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]18[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Spell Mastery[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]19[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]ASI[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]20[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD]Signature Spell[/TD][TD]5[/TD][TD]?[/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR][/TABLE][SIZE=3]Class Features:[/SIZE] Hit Points Hit Dice: (1d6 or 1d8) per arcanist level Hit Points at 1st Level: (6 or 8) + CON mod Hit Points at Higher Levels: (1d6 or 1d8) or (4 or 5) + CON mod per arcanist level after 1st Proficiencies Armor: (None or Light) Weapons: (Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows) or (Simple weapons, hand crossbows, longswords, rapiers, shortswords) Tools: None Saving Throws: (INT and WIS or INT and DEX) Skills: (2 from Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion or Any 3) Equipment: (As proficiencies dictate) [U]1st> Spellcasting: [/U]Cantrips: As shown in table, using Wizard list. Spell Slots: as full caster Spells Known: Still iffy on this bit, explain below Spellcasting Ability: INT Ritual Casting: Any known ritual, like bard. Spellcasting Focus: Arcane focus. [U]1st> Arcane Recovery[/U]: As Wizard. [U]2nd> Jack of All Trades:[/U] As Bard. or [U]Metamagic:[/U] As sorcerer (sort of, explain below) [U]2nd> Arcane Tradition:[/U] As Wizard, with the following potential changes: Instead of half-cost to add school spells into spellbook, instead either 1) learn additional spell every 2 levels up to 12th, any class, as long as its in the school (as a mirror for magic secrets, or up to 16th level to match Lore bard secrets) or 2) Starting at 2nd level you effectively add all spells of the school to the list of "available spells" (I'll elaborate my thoughts on this below) [U]3rd> Arcane Tradition Feature[/U]: The "other" 2nd level wizard school feature comes here. [U]3rd> Expertise:[/U] As Bard, but choose only 1 proficiency at 10th level. [U]6th. 10th, 14th > Arcane Tradition Feature:[/U] This one and the ones at 10th and 14th are as Wizard. [U]18th> Spell Master:[/U] As Wizard, but with specific disallowance of healing (since some schools might get healing magic normally unavailable to the wizard list) [U]20th> Signature Spell:[/U] As Wizard. So basically, you trade the spellbook and all its versatility for "known" spells and a few of the bard's features. If this was all I'd say that it's OP, which is why I was thinking the spells known should be less than a Bard, maybe halfway between a bard and a sorcerer. A Wizard with 20 INT can prepare 25 spells at 20th level, so i would think anything more than 20 spells total (including any from the school feature, if it ends up performing that function) should be pretty much the upper limit. Alright so for the Hit Dice/Proficiencies: For hit dice I think it should be d6's simply because the "fighting" flavour isnt included here as it is with bard. For proficiencies the flavour of the class would have me take the "Any 3" from bard, and the INT/WIS saves from Wizard. Weapon profs, I think should be just any simple weapons, maybe a couple basic martials like shortswords Spellcasting: Cantrips I set as Wizard just because wizard is the base class for this one. I think an argument could be made for bard-level cantrips also. Spell slots is where it gets complicated for me. A Bard, without counting magical secrets (cause that's been replaced by the school spells, maybe) is: 4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/13/14/14/15/15/16/16/16/16. A sorcerer gets almost the same base (ending at 15 but starting at 2) but doesn't have any more than that, instead receiving Metamagic, which I have also considered as an option for this class. If we include the magical secrets, it takes the bard up to 22, as shown in the PHB (24 with lore bard). My original target for spells known is 20, so something a little weaker perhaps than basic magic secrets, say, 5 additional spells for 21 total. However, I would like to give the school spells feature a chance to work at all levels (except maybe 8 and 9, where selection is so small as to make any increase a statistically larger contributor) so we'll say 7 more spells. To fit my target of 20, I need 13 base spells, which is even lower than sorcerer. I think it could work, but feels less effective to me as a solution. If, instead, I use the school feature to expand the available spells at level up without adding more known, I can make my target of 20 happen easily, and use: 4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/17/18/18/19/19/20. It could also be adjusted down if 20 proves too many. I'll move on before my ramble becomes a wall-of-text avalanche. Metamagic vs Jack of all Trades: I feel that Jack of all Trades fits better with the theme, but Metamagic backs off the bard's territory a little more. Also, including metamagic at this level means getting it sooner than the sorcerer. Including it at all means finding some way for it to stack with the sorcerer's if needed. If it does get included, it would have to run off a new resource, maybe "metamagic points" or something. Probably less points available than the sorc, since the sorc's points can convert into slots as well as fuel class features. Arcane Tradition Feature: "School" Expert> This is the feature that's messing up all my thoughts on spells known above. I'd like it to either be adding spells known of the school, or allowing additional choices with existing spells known. I'll write up an example of each: Abjuration Expert Beginning at 2nd level, and every other level thereafter, you can choose one abjuration spell from any class's spell list and add it to your list of known spells. [I]These spells are included in the "Spells Known" column of the arcanist table. [/I](I'd include it if this is the version I end up using) or Divination Expert Beginning at 2nd level, when you learn a new spell (as shown in the "Spells Known" column of the arcanist table) you can learn any divination spell from any class list instead of your normal spell for that level. Obviously the wording needs refined, but that's the basics. I realize its a lot of information to process (and includes a good bit of my own process for developing classes, so maybe even less easy to understand) but I'm hoping for some useful feedback/suggestions/criticisms from you guys to help get this idea moving again. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Franken-caster: The Arcanist(?)
Top
