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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7818121" data-attributes="member: 12731">I'm going to discuss that disclaimer of Xoth's, but out of respect that this is an aside, I'm again going to do so within spoiler tags.[SPOILER]Well, sure, they're not the focus of the book. But, unlike regular fantasy, S&S sources visit these mature themes over and over again. As you say, they're staples of the genre. This should tell you something.And now I'm gonna tell y'all what that is <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />To me it would come across as disingenuous to not simply admit that there is definite allure in exploring them; just like any other forbidden fruit. Intellectual honesty then demands that you admit that yes, you are prioritizing your foci in a way that would not sit well with someone with a personal history of slavery or sexism or prejudice.[SPOILER="I really mean it - this discussion is mature to the point of being immature (trigger warning!)"]I guess I just want it out in the open: you play S&S (as opposed to vanilla fantasy) for pretty much the same base reasons you watch a sleazy horror movie. Why otherwise include free availability of nekkid slave girls or feature busty snake godesses as frenemies, or what about the puerile power fantasy that is playing a muscle mountain that crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women?What I'm getting is that instead of pretending this isn't motivating me ("these themes are not the focus of the book; they are not explored in-depth, nor are they used gratuitously") I instead make the very reasonable request that nobody get personally offended by me watching said sleazy horror movie. Or that said movie even exists. Just don't <s>rent</s> stream it!Issues over sensitivity has gotten out of hand to the point where I likely wouldn't even be allowed to discuss this at a certain other rpg forum on the net. Because they would interpret my interest in a S&S game as personally insulting or belittling them, when that is absolutely not the case. Just as it's nobody's business what movies I stream.Moreover, I feel I need to point out that a S&S game where everybody is treated equally regardless of gender, race or personal beliefs is... just not S&S for me. Those "staples" really make or break the genre.That obviously does not mean I condone racism or slavery or violence against women. (Even having to say it is tiresome to say the least)It only means I occasionally want to play a rpg without having to scrub out racism, slavery and NPCs suffering violence and degradation - all things that has happened, is happening, and things that are appropriate to create a gritty mature setting. Not as "the focus" of the game, as in "the PCs are hired to kidnap Princess Jasmine and then spend the session detailing the various debasing treatments they have in store for her."But I can't say it's just scenery either. As I said, these mature themes aren't just mentioned once by the rulebook and then never visited again. One of the featured adventures features a girl who actively wants to birth a spider god. I'm sorry for having to say it, but if that isn't a nod to allure, to forbidden fruits (read "tentacle porn"), I don't know what is. Just dropping that fact and then moving on as if it was just "unpleasant but undeniable facts of life" is not telling the whole truth. The truth is that this IS the driver of, no not the game as a whole, but certainly that adventure - the players are asked to actively engage with it, take a stand and decide how they judge this girl.So let us not pretend that S&S will not upset people that are sensitive to, say, crude depictions of "mighty" heroes and "voluptuous" heroines, and what this says about people that are neither mighty nor voluptuous - and more to the point: people that want to play heroes that are neither mighty or voluptuous, perhaps because they identify as neither.  Yes, if you're LBGT (to pick an example from up-thread) you are asked to enter a world that does not explore or even acknowledge this. Some people can handle the separation, others can't. Or won't.S&S is a lot of great things. S&S is larger than life. S&S is sweaty, colorful, unrestrained and wild. But let's rip off the band-aid and get it over with - let's simply admit S&S is not about sensitivity and inclusiveness!"That said, let’s get on with the game." - Right on![/SPOILER][/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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